Introducing YellowFruit.

Packet databases and other quizbowl sites, apps, or software should be discussed here.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

nick. wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 7:47 pm Ok, so whenever I open YellowFruit 2.5.1 on my laptop, it crashes and I get this crash report. Link to the full report: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Kqm ... sp=sharing
I've published a new version that I believe fixes this. (I don't have a device that runs Catalina, so I can't be sure.)

Let me know if you're still seeing problems. Sorry this took so long.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

Ndg wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:26 pm
nick. wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 7:47 pm Ok, so whenever I open YellowFruit 2.5.1 on my laptop, it crashes and I get this crash report. Link to the full report: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Kqm ... sp=sharing
I've published a new version that I believe fixes this. (I don't have a device that runs Catalina, so I can't be sure.)

Let me know if you're still seeing problems. Sorry this took so long.
I'm told this doesn't work either. At this time I would recommend not using Apple products.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Lake Winnipesaukee Mystery Stone »

When I export Full Report, I cannot upload any of the produced HTML pages to hsquizbowl apart from the _standing.html file - the others all bring up the error "Scoreboard report was not saved because it does not appear to be a valid SQBS file." etc.
Edit. Also when I send the file to another person, the negs continue to be recorded, but not displayed in the output files they produce.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

Lake Winnipesaukee Mystery Stone wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:55 am When I export Full Report, I cannot upload any of the produced HTML pages to hsquizbowl apart from the _standing.html file - the others all bring up the error "Scoreboard report was not saved because it does not appear to be a valid SQBS file." etc.
I've released a new version that fixes this issue.

Lake Winnipesaukee Mystery Stone wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:55 am Edit. Also when I send the file to another person, the negs continue to be recorded, but not displayed in the output files they produce.
This is likely an issue of older versions not working with files from newer versions. I've done my best to prevent these kinds of issues, but all the same I would advise folks to be on the same version if possible if you're passing files around.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by JA01 »

My YellowFruit was working fine until I went to export the full report. Then it froze for about 2 minutes and finally crashed. When I tried to reopen it, all that came up was a java script error. I can't seem to open any of the files I saved to the program.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

JA01 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:32 pm My YellowFruit was working fine until I went to export the full report. Then it froze for about 2 minutes and finally crashed. When I tried to reopen it, all that came up was a java script error. I can't seem to open any of the files I saved to the program.
Sorry about that. I have no idea how your system ended up in that state, but I have released a version that at least won't crash on startup in that specific situation.
Joshua Rutsky wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:54 am the interface is much easier than SQBS with one exception - in SQBS, you can tab into the field for team selection and begin typing the name of the team that is playing; in YellowFruit I was forced to click each time and select the field with my mouse before I could enter the team name.
As a bonus, I finally remembered to fix this.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Cody »

I have not done statistics in a while, but I was pleased to get a chance to use YellowFruit today. It is fantastic -- the stats entry program that finally fixes SQBS's (understandable) shortcomings. You have done a truly admirable job here, Andrew.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by CPiGuy »

Ndg wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:51 pm
Snoopy wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:46 pm Do you think you can add an import from SQBS feature in a future release for easy conversion? Not a programmer, so sorry if I just made an insanely hard suggestion.
What is the use case for doing this? It's not necessarily that hard, but I haven't come with a reason to justify the work.
Things like TJSheets output SQBS files, but people would prefer to use Yellowfruit to work on them. This would be really helpful.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Snom »

CPiGuy wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:12 am
Ndg wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:51 pm
Snoopy wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:46 pm Do you think you can add an import from SQBS feature in a future release for easy conversion? Not a programmer, so sorry if I just made an insanely hard suggestion.
What is the use case for doing this? It's not necessarily that hard, but I haven't come with a reason to justify the work.
Things like TJSheets output SQBS files, but people would prefer to use Yellowfruit to work on them. This would be really helpful.
Wouldn't this be possible with a SQBS to QBJ converter? I couldn't find one in a couple minutes of searching but there must be one somewhere. If not, it's pretty easy to implement.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by CPiGuy »

acz13 wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:01 am
CPiGuy wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:12 am
Ndg wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:51 pm
Snoopy wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:46 pm Do you think you can add an import from SQBS feature in a future release for easy conversion? Not a programmer, so sorry if I just made an insanely hard suggestion.
What is the use case for doing this? It's not necessarily that hard, but I haven't come with a reason to justify the work.
Things like TJSheets output SQBS files, but people would prefer to use Yellowfruit to work on them. This would be really helpful.
Wouldn't this be possible with a SQBS to QBJ converter? I couldn't find one in a couple minutes of searching but there must be one somewhere. If not, it's pretty easy to implement.
I think there's a QBJ to SQBS converter but not the other way around.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

Right now it can only import the specific sorts qbj files that Neg5 generates, which are kind of weird iirc and on an older version of the schema.

I'm happy to support more general qbj import funcationality -- I've been planning to do it at some point for a while -- but I don't really know anything about how these fancy spreadsheet things work so if you want something like that, contact me privately and we can work together to design a solution (although I would be unlikely to make much progress until around January due to various Life Things).
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Atlashill »

Came across a bug. Apparently the program currently does not recognize teams who claim 100% of their bouncebacks.

Screenshot: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DMd57l ... eLYb6/view
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

Atlashill wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:20 pm Came across a bug. Apparently the program currently does not recognize teams who claim 100% of their bouncebacks.

Screenshot: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DMd57l ... eLYb6/view
Silly issue with floating point math. I've published a version with the fix.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Atlashill »

Thank you for the quick fix! Excellent as always!
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Atlashill »

Another quirk that my brother and I have come across:

We've discovered in the current version that when clicking "Save & New" to enter games, any phases clicked from the previous entry will not automatically be selected for the new game. It's resulting in having to thumb back to see that "prelims" is checked each time, thus adding another step when entering games.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by VSCOelasticity »

Can you add some instructions on installing and running from source for Linux users?
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Atlashill »

Trying to figure something out: how do I set up tiebreaker sorting? I had two teams in a round-robin end up with identical PPG, but they appear to be sorted alphabetically and not by PPB or any other actual metric (Points allowed per game and game margins all went in favor of the team that ended up ranked third over the team ranked second.)
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

Atlashill wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:28 pm Trying to figure something out: how do I set up tiebreaker sorting? I had two teams in a round-robin end up with identical PPG, but they appear to be sorted alphabetically and not by PPB or any other actual metric (Points allowed per game and game margins all went in favor of the team that ended up ranked third over the team ranked second.)
It doesn't try to sort by anything beyond record and PPG(PP20). I don't think there's a single "correct" way to sort teams that are tied by both record and PPG, so I guess if you all want to give me the different ways you might break such a tie, I will consider adding some kind of configuration for that.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

VSCOelasticity wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:45 am Can you add some instructions on installing and running from source for Linux users?
I can, but I don't have anything that runs linux so I can't make any guarantees about whether it will work. You can contact me privately if you want to contribute to making linux version(s) that I can release.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Amazingguysofguys »

I'm running an individual style tournament and wanted to try to somehow put the stats on the hsqb database. Is it possible using Yellowfruit to make a "game" between Player A and B that ended as 95-115 respectively a win for Player A? Player A would win because they buzzed out first before Player B and this is the way NAQT puts their IPNCT stats on their stats database.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

Amazingguysofguys wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:26 pm I'm running an individual style tournament and wanted to try to somehow put the stats on the hsqb database. Is it possible using Yellowfruit to make a "game" between Player A and B that ended as 95-115 respectively a win for Player A? Player A would win because they buzzed out first before Player B and this is the way NAQT puts their IPNCT stats on their stats database.
No, it doesn't support that sort of format.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by the return of AHAN »

We're still no good to use this if I have an Apple, right?
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

the return of AHAN wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:28 pm We're still no good to use this if I have an Apple, right?
I haven't made any specific attempts to fix this lately, no (though I'm planning to get back to that in the next few months). You are, of course, free to try whatever version's I've published Mac apps for... they may or may not work depending on the MacOS version.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

YellowFruit 3.0.0

Game import. You can now import .qbj or .json files containing games into YF. (Thanks to Alejandro L for helping with this)
  • Import files with YellowFruit menu > Import > Import Games; Ctrl/Command + H; or simply by dragging and dropping files onto the list of games.
  • The sidebar will show you how many games were imported with warnings or errors, as well as any files that were rejected entirely.
  • Each file should contain a single Tournament Schema Match object. At this time, $ref objects are not supported within these files.
  • This feature was developed primarily for use with the MODAQ Quiz Bowl Reader (demo), but I've tried to generalize things so that any other tool could use it as well. If you have such a tool and things aren't working for you, let me know and we can figure out how to make it better.
Default round number. There is a new field at the top of the list of games where you can specify the default round number for a new game. Importing qbj games was the motivation for this feature, since Match objects in the Tournament Schema can't specify their own round number, but I expect it to be useful with manual entry as well.

Games with errors and warnings. The list of games now has badges at the top that show how many games have errors and warnings. Click on a badge to filter to those games.

Storing invalid games. For anyone doing nonstandard things with .yft files, it might be worth pointing out that the import functionality now makes it possible for a file to contain invalid games. Such games don't appear in stat reports and aren't exportable to other formats; nevertheless, it can no longer be assumed that a .yft file created in YellowFruit only contains valid games.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

I have once again attempted to publish a macOS version. I think I'm stretching the limits of what I can do on my very old MacBook, so I suspect it will still not work for everyone.

If you attempt to use it, whether successfully or unsuccessfully, DM me with what device and macOS version you're using and any error messages or crash reports you see, so I can better understand the scope of the problem. Thanks!
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

Atlashill wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:07 pm Another quirk that my brother and I have come across:

We've discovered in the current version that when clicking "Save & New" to enter games, any phases clicked from the previous entry will not automatically be selected for the new game. It's resulting in having to thumb back to see that "prelims" is checked each time, thus adding another step when entering games.
It appears I forgot about this and then accidentally fixed it while doing something else. Let me know if it's still not working how you would hope.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by jonah »

I didn't investigate the functionality you described beyond reading your post, but "Each file should contain a single Tournament Schema Match Object" sounds odd, since that means each file can contain only one game, which doesn't seem super useful.

After the HSNCT, let me know if you want to talk about QBJ in general (which I know a lot about), making sure your QBJ features work with e.g. files exported from NAQT's system (I can provide samples), or Mac app publishing (which I know very little about but at least have a fairly modern Mac and am willing to spend a bit of time on, other commitments pending).
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

jonah wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 12:29 am I didn't investigate the functionality you described beyond reading your post, but "Each file should contain a single Tournament Schema Match Object" sounds odd, since that means each file can contain only one game, which doesn't seem super useful.
The reason for this is merely, "that's the way MODAQ works", and I realize it's a somewhat nonstandard use of qbj. Changing things to take a file with multiple games would be pretty straightforward, and I'm happy to do it if it's what works best for people.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Alejandro »

Ndg wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 12:49 am
jonah wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 12:29 am I didn't investigate the functionality you described beyond reading your post, but "Each file should contain a single Tournament Schema Match Object" sounds odd, since that means each file can contain only one game, which doesn't seem super useful.
The reason for this is merely, "that's the way MODAQ works", and I realize it's a somewhat nonstandard use of qbj. Changing things to take a file with multiple games would be pretty straightforward, and I'm happy to do it if it's what works best for people.
MODAQ works this way because it's just the reader/scorekeepr software independent of any tournament software, which means that it's focused on single games. There are ongoing projects that will integrate it with tournaments, so hopefully those can produce multiple matches at once.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

To be clear, I am planning to support importing qbj files with multiple games in the future (and generally move towards importing as much as possible from qbj files, not just games). I know myself well enough not to commit a specific time frame for accomplishing that, but it's one of my top two priorities (the other being entering games without individual stats).
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by AKKOLADE »

If I enter a game as a forfeit and then go back to edit that game, it freezes YellowFruit.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

AKKOLADE wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:11 pm If I enter a game as a forfeit and then go back to edit that game, it freezes YellowFruit.
I've uploaded a new version with a fix. Sorry about that.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Mike Bentley »

A few tournaments (including mine) recently have used the 20/15/10/-5 point structure. As far as I can tell, this isn't natively supported by YellowFruit. Any chance this can be added?
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

Mike Bentley wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:23 am A few tournaments (including mine) recently have used the 20/15/10/-5 point structure. As far as I can tell, this isn't natively supported by YellowFruit. Any chance this can be added?
Superpowers are on my list to do at some point. Supporting nonstandard formats isn't the highest priority, though.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Red Panda Cub »

Extremely minor quibble, but when browsing the "Team Detail" for an event scored with YellowFruit, the playoff legend covers the PPG of the last player on the last team [see picture].
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by the return of AHAN »

Remind me why I can't just go back and use, say, 2.5.2 to run on a Mac? Will it just not run on Monterey?
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by sgoebel »

The latest version I can get to run on Monterey 12.6 is 2.4.2.

I tried building 3.0.1 on my mac by running `npm run pack-darwin` after cloning the repository and running `npm install` and was able to at least start the app that was created, but it only displays "Loading..." in the application window. Versons after 2.4.2 downloaded from GitHub crash when run in Monterey 12.6 - the application window never appears.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by nicole. »

sgoebel wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:55 pm The latest version I can get to run on Monterey 12.6 is 2.4.2.

I tried building 3.0.1 on my mac by running `npm run pack-darwin` after cloning the repository and running `npm install` and was able to at least start the app that was created, but it only displays "Loading..." in the application window. Versons after 2.4.2 downloaded from GitHub crash when run in Monterey 12.6 - the application window never appears.
I have a working YellowFruit build that works on both Monterrey 12.4 and Ventura 13.0 which may help fix your problem. Email me at nick at aqbleague.com if you want to discuss further, but all the tests I've done with it have worked.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

Red Panda Cub wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:31 pm Extremely minor quibble, but when browsing the "Team Detail" for an event scored with YellowFruit, the playoff legend covers the PPG of the last player on the last team [see picture].
I'll look into doing something about this but in the meantime I'll point out that it becomes transparent if you hover over it with your mouse.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by mfincher »

I have downloaded the application but have been unable to find a scheduling tool. Is this available, or do I need to use SQBS or another program to create schedules?

Thanks,

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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by meebles127 »

mfincher wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 10:30 am I have downloaded the application but have been unable to find a scheduling tool. Is this available, or do I need to use SQBS or another program to create schedules?

Thanks,

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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

Yes, that's the one I would recommend as well.
https://hdwhite.org/qb/schedules/
I'd also advise caution if you're using SQBS to generate schedules, since iirc it can do weird things like put one team in the same room for the whole day.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Fado Alexandrino »

Today I used Yellowfruit 3.0.2 for the first time. I have not done stats for a tournament with multiple prelim brackets since ACF Winter in 2020 and didn't recall this specific issue there.

When I go to carry-over prelim games, I used the search feature to go team-by-team. Say for that team I looked up, I want to carry over their round 7 game, I go to click the round 7 game, and give it a playoff tag. This also then gave every other round 7 game a playoff tag, and when I tried removing it from another game, all the round 7 playoff tags went away.

When I go down the games list without using the search feature, and tag playoff games as playoff games individually, that worked.

While doing that I noticed another bug. Say I tag one game as a playoff game. That tag is added, but then for that game, it is considered still "selected" without the blue checkmark, and considered not selected when it has the blue checkmark.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by CPiGuy »

Is there a functionality to "select all" games (either all of them, or all of them within a search)?
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by CPiGuy »

It would be neat if a future update could allow us to manually edit individual phase rankings and/or specify tiebreaking criteria -- I just had a bracket in which two teams were tied in both record and PPG, and Yellowfruit sorted them in an order that was not PPB (which the tournament directors used as the first tiebreaker). I don't know whether that order was alphabetical or total powers (the next column) or what.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Sima Guang Hater »

Is there a way to get Yellowfruit to recognize crossover games automatically for playoff stats, rather than having to select it manually? Also, is there a way to export the HTML stat reports for each phase individually (so prelim, playoff, and overall can be posted as separate links on HSQB)?
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by meebles127 »

Sima Guang Hater wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 1:15 pm Is there a way to get Yellowfruit to recognize crossover games automatically for playoff stats, rather than having to select it manually? Also, is there a way to export the HTML stat reports for each phase individually (so prelim, playoff, and overall can be posted as separate links on HSQB)?
It's my understanding that the current way for indicating carry-over games is the easiest way to do it. The way we do it on YF is significantly easier than the way it used to be done on SQBS.

It is possible to export all phases separately, you can do this by clicking on the different phases of your tournament in the dark yellow section towards the top of the page (e.g.: all games, prelims, playoffs, etc.) and follow the traditional steps for exporting while on each tab.
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Fado Alexandrino »

Fado Alexandrino wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:18 pm Today I used Yellowfruit 3.0.2 for the first time. I have not done stats for a tournament with multiple prelim brackets since ACF Winter in 2020 and didn't recall this specific issue there.

When I go to carry-over prelim games, I used the search feature to go team-by-team. Say for that team I looked up, I want to carry over their round 7 game, I go to click the round 7 game, and give it a playoff tag. This also then gave every other round 7 game a playoff tag, and when I tried removing it from another game, all the round 7 playoff tags went away.

When I go down the games list without using the search feature, and tag playoff games as playoff games individually, that worked.

While doing that I noticed another bug. Say I tag one game as a playoff game. That tag is added, but then for that game, it is considered still "selected" without the blue checkmark, and considered not selected when it has the blue checkmark.
So this is still a thing
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by Ndg »

Fado Alexandrino wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 2:35 pm
Fado Alexandrino wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:18 pm Today I used Yellowfruit 3.0.2 for the first time. I have not done stats for a tournament with multiple prelim brackets since ACF Winter in 2020 and didn't recall this specific issue there.

When I go to carry-over prelim games, I used the search feature to go team-by-team. Say for that team I looked up, I want to carry over their round 7 game, I go to click the round 7 game, and give it a playoff tag. This also then gave every other round 7 game a playoff tag, and when I tried removing it from another game, all the round 7 playoff tags went away.

When I go down the games list without using the search feature, and tag playoff games as playoff games individually, that worked.

While doing that I noticed another bug. Say I tag one game as a playoff game. That tag is added, but then for that game, it is considered still "selected" without the blue checkmark, and considered not selected when it has the blue checkmark.
So this is still a thing
I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that I don't intend to fix these issues, in particular. The good news is I'm working on a version in which that workflow won't even exist (the application will be aware of the tournament format and will handle carry-overs for you at the appropriate time).
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Re: Introducing YellowFruit.

Post by a Joe »

Ndg wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 3:36 pm
Fado Alexandrino wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 2:35 pm
Fado Alexandrino wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:18 pm Today I used Yellowfruit 3.0.2 for the first time. I have not done stats for a tournament with multiple prelim brackets since ACF Winter in 2020 and didn't recall this specific issue there.

When I go to carry-over prelim games, I used the search feature to go team-by-team. Say for that team I looked up, I want to carry over their round 7 game, I go to click the round 7 game, and give it a playoff tag. This also then gave every other round 7 game a playoff tag, and when I tried removing it from another game, all the round 7 playoff tags went away.

When I go down the games list without using the search feature, and tag playoff games as playoff games individually, that worked.

While doing that I noticed another bug. Say I tag one game as a playoff game. That tag is added, but then for that game, it is considered still "selected" without the blue checkmark, and considered not selected when it has the blue checkmark.
So this is still a thing
I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that I don't intend to fix these issues, in particular. The good news is I'm working on a version in which that workflow won't even exist (the application will be aware of the tournament format and will handle carry-overs for you at the appropriate time).
I must express my concern about this. We commonly use Yellowfruit to run massive tournaments-- sometimes up to 72 teams and hopefully more. We've spent a lot of time developing unique formats for that, and I very much doubt they can be guessed by the application, since they are proprietary and very complex. Hell, even Jonah had trouble figuring them out until I carefully explained them to him. (They work just fine and are easy to follow for the teams attending, but are very hard to discern if you aren't looking at the schedule.) Similarly, we have formats for tournaments of 10 to 48 teams that are not what is on HDWhite or in Conor's database that everyone seems to use nowadays. Some of them are also very complex with multiple rebracketings. Everything is proprietary. I have no interest in changing that, but I still have a very strong interest in continuing to use your excellent software.

So how can you design software that will be aware of tournament formats when such proprietary formats exist? I do not want this program to become useless to me or to anyone else who does not use what's on HDWhite. What provisions will be made for nonstandard or custom formats?
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