On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - Herp Derp

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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Down and out in Quintana Roo » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:34 am

I'm wondering why, Fred, you take the time to list the over PPG of each team for each tournament. This statistic is a highly dubious one to compare any teams. If you look at CR's PPG, you'd assume we just can't score a lot per game, but that's because we keep qualifying for the playoffs in these tough DC tournaments and then losing a lot of the afternoon games to schools clearly better than us.

For instance, this past weekend at TJ, our overall PPG was 277, certainly respectable. But in the morning rounds, it was 359. If we had, instead, made the middle consolation bracket, i'm sure we would have had a much higher PPG for the whole day.

I'm just saying that listing PPG is about as good as listing wins. We won just 4 games Saturday, but we were 6th place. If you're going to list PPG, why not then wins too? It's just as useful, by which i mean only barely useful.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:18 pm

Spoilers: I don't really care much about PPG. I just list it because I reckon it's kind of expected?
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Remember-the-Alamo-Remember-Goliad » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:09 pm

Oh, NO, NO, NO, Fred -- Oh, Ye, of little faith! As someone who has something of a professional interest in "faith" let me assure you that others (myself!) have GREAT FAITH in what I can only term an innovative, insightful, and, well, satisfying set of outcomes. Self-serving on my part? Absolutely! Does that bother me? Well, with this being Holy Week and the particulars of my job description being what they are, yes, it does bother me a tiny bit. But, I'm sure I can be persuaded to continue enjoying these new "results". Just sign me LOL IN TEXAS! PS: Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!
Fred wrote:Also I did a thing I totally don't have faith in, happy to help.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:01 am

I may try to put together a set of (abbreviated) middle school rankings before MSNCT.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Erogo » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:39 am

I'm not sure if you're still continuing the high school rankings Fred, but in case you are, Irvine High School hosted their Operation Pandemonium tournament today with the IS-116 set and they promptly posted the complete stats: http://hsquizbowl.org/db/tournaments/938
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:08 am

Erogo wrote:I'm not sure if you're still continuing the high school rankings Fred, but in case you are, Irvine High School hosted their Operation Pandemonium tournament today with the IS-116 set and they promptly posted the complete stats: http://hsquizbowl.org/db/tournaments/938


There was an update a week ago, so yeah, it's still going on. I'll add those results when I can.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Scaled Flowerpiercer » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:24 pm

Just in case you care about details of the situation of small teams that don't really matter that might impact their rankings...
Irvington A, at the NY NAQT NYC-Metro Area State Championship on April 14 was missing one of its best players in the morning rounds, so our afternoon rounds might be a more accurate representation of our team than the tournament as a whole: and to save you calculation our afternoon PPB was 20.41, while for the whole tournament it ended up being 18.82.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:49 pm

I don't foresee that being incorporated.

New rankings.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Down and out in Quintana Roo » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:36 am

I think you missed St. Anselm's tournament on April 14th run on Yale's set.

And TJ's mirror of Prison Bowl on March 31st.

So, yeah, both tournaments CR has played since the last time you updated this.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:53 am

And the actual LIST.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby nadph » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:50 am

In case it wasn't clear, we were missing Sameer for IS116.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby wareagle » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:02 am

The Georgia Tech BHSAT mirror was not included either.

http://www.hsquizbowl.org/db/tournament ... all_games/

It was our first tournament without bouncebacks in over three months, so we hope it gets a look!
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Down and out in Quintana Roo » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:03 am

What the heck was added in this update, anyway?
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:07 pm

A bunch of NAQT tournaments and some earlier BHSAT events. It's almost like I work 40 hours a week and do a bunch of other crap for qb, y'all.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Down and out in Quintana Roo » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:43 pm

We know. I'm sure we all just hope that the rankings are as accurate as possible. They're great for what they are.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Shashmaqam » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:16 pm

At the GA Tech BHSAT Norcross A was only our captain.

This is from Norcross's Prison Bowl Mirror.

http://www.hsquizbowl.org/db/tournament ... standings/

Bouncebacks were not used. Here it was Norcross's captain and third best player.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:47 pm

An important thing happened today!

Oh, and rankings.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Chandragupta » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:46 pm

Fred wrote:An important thing happened today!

Oh, and rankings.


Something to note about Norcross's stats at the Georgia Tech HSNCT Warmup: There was only one player on the "A" team, since we made a "B" team out of the other two players originally on the first team to replace a team that had dropped out on short notice. Here are the stats: http://hsquizbowl.org/db/tournaments/96 ... all_games/.

Edit: Sorry for the repeat of Hernan's post. I didn't see it before adding this one.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:26 am

I'll keep those stats list with the A-team. "Lesser" performances don't drag rankings down.

I've attached an update to the "2012 all stats" file I use; it's as up to date as this morning, when I tossed in a few more stat lines that I've yet to use.
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2012 all stats.xlsx
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Down and out in Quintana Roo » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:50 am

The Rider Bowl stats won't matter a lot, but they did feature TJ and GDS and Gonzaga, and a good GDS B team and a Charter team that was like their B/C team.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Euler's Constant » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:32 pm

Was Michigan State's March Madness ever included in rankings? http://hsquizbowl.org/db/tournaments/940/
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:38 pm

No, despite me thinking that I had worked them in.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby yellow7206 » Thu May 10, 2012 12:42 pm

Fred wrote:I may try to put together a set of (abbreviated) middle school rankings before MSNCT.


Are you still planning on doing this?
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Thu May 10, 2012 12:59 pm

Well, the MSNCT happened, so I can't say I see a big point in it since there's only one pyramidal middle school national.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sat May 12, 2012 1:56 pm

My plans for the rankings for the rest of this season:

1) A final set of rankings will be released before the HSNCT (so, on May 24th or earlier). This could expand to 250 teams, since I've more or less determined the cutoff for this.

2) I will probably not write a set of prediction articles; at best, you'll get one thing indicating the tiers of title contenders that I'm dividing teams into.

3) I'll do a post-nationals set of rankings. This will shockingly be released after NSC & HSNCT.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sat May 12, 2012 1:59 pm

And for those curious, various cutoffs are roughly around here in terms of best performance in adjusted points per bonus:

50th: 22.50 appb
100th: 20.25 appb
150th: 18.75 appb
200th: 18.00 appb
250th: 17.00 appb
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sun May 20, 2012 11:24 am

Hey guys, guess what? HSNCT is this weekend!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sun May 20, 2012 12:41 pm

By the way, I'm going to actually be stopping at 200 teams for the rankings.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Weighted Companion Cube » Tue May 22, 2012 5:39 pm

For what it's worth, you can use the stats from wildcat and midwest championship under "Something Ambiguous" for DCC B. We were a man down also.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Wed May 23, 2012 10:05 am

The pre-nationals rankings will be posted Thursday at 12:01 a.m. eastern time.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Wed May 23, 2012 11:27 am

Assuming that I've set WordPress up properly, you'll be able to view the rankings at 12:01 a.m. tomorrow by clicking here. If not, feel free to listen to horns.wav as often as you wish.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby pblessman » Thu May 24, 2012 12:02 am

Wow... I stayed up for this coming online...
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby merv1618 » Thu May 24, 2012 12:54 am

On Ladue's participation in MO's pre-nationals Prison Bowl mirror, it should be noted that it was just one A-team player solo.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby christino » Thu May 24, 2012 1:18 am

merv1618 wrote:On Ladue's participation in MO's pre-nationals Prison Bowl mirror, it should be noted that it was just one A-team player solo.

Yeah, and not even the best A team player to have played a tournament solo this year!
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby blizzard » Thu May 24, 2012 7:17 am

The Waylon Jennings Memorial Tournament at Ohio State used RAVE, not D2 SCT.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby fett0001 » Thu May 24, 2012 10:21 am

Auburn A at Atrophy 3 was just one guy.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Thu May 24, 2012 10:32 am

Christ, I Know wrote:
merv1618 wrote:On Ladue's participation in MO's pre-nationals Prison Bowl mirror, it should be noted that it was just one A-team player solo.

Yeah, and not even the best A team player to have played a tournament solo this year!


fett0001 wrote:Auburn A at Atrophy 3 was just one guy.

Those are those teams' 7th best stat lines, which are not considered much while ranking teams.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Thu May 24, 2012 12:45 pm

blizzard wrote:The Waylon Jennings Memorial Tournament at Ohio State used RAVE, not D2 SCT.


This, however, is a thing. I'll check these when I get a chance, but it's not a terribly high priority. Too busy being free from the rankings to go back to them right now.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - I'm Free! (Pre-Nats Done)

Postby Remember-the-Alamo-Remember-Goliad » Thu May 24, 2012 3:26 pm

The last, real postings certainly give Cistercian both hope about the competition and something tangible to shoot for. We plan to do both. Between monastic ascesis and apatheia, on the one hand, and adolescent exuberance on the other, I think we'll do just fine. Thanks for all the rankings work. See y'all in Atlanta & St. Louis.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - I'm Free! (Pre-Nats Done)

Postby tinioril » Fri May 25, 2012 8:00 pm

How is ppb adjusted in these rankings? (What does that mean?)
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - I'm Free! (Pre-Nats Done)

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Fri May 25, 2012 8:15 pm

I calculated the average difference between teams I've been tracking in their performance on that set and a comparable performance on an IS set, and added or subtracted that to their actual ppb.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - I'm Free! (Pre-Nats Done)

Postby tinioril » Sat May 26, 2012 10:51 am

Oh okay. It's just a way to account for variations in bonus difficulty from set to set?
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - I'm Free! (Pre-Nats Done)

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sat May 26, 2012 11:26 am

Yep.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - I'm Free! (Pre-Nats Done)

Postby NickConderWKU » Sat May 26, 2012 11:36 am

So according to the stats DAFT was the hardest high school set this year by far?
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - I'm Free! (Pre-Nats Done)

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sat May 26, 2012 11:57 am

I wouldn't advise looking at the appb values as the sole way of determining difficulty; in fact, I would say that the values on the spreadsheet (which I'll update and post, along with some of a write up, at.... some point in the near-ish future) are more important. The "adjustment" values are rounded some for my ease of use, and only consider the top 200-300 teams by ppb. I think it's far more important to look at things like the median and the first quartile values, since the performance of lower teams is more telling of the difficulty of a set.

All that said? Without having the data in front of me right now, DAFT was definitely one of the three or so hardest actual high school sets this year, and might be the hardest.
Fred Morlan
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - I'm Free! (Pre-Nats Done)

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Tue May 29, 2012 12:24 am

Would someone with coding experience be interested in helping me automate this far more for next year? The alternative is that things will be severely cut back.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 20XX
hsqbrank manager, PACE member (former President and At Large member of Board), NAQT writer & subject editor, HSAPQ freelance writer, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator, 2012 NASAT Tournament Director
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - I'm Free! (Pre-Nats Done)

Postby Public safety diving » Tue May 29, 2012 1:07 am

Fred wrote:Would someone with coding experience be interested in helping me automate this far more for next year? The alternative is that things will be severely cut back.

I might be interested in such a thing.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - I'm Free! (Pre-Nats Done)

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:02 am

I'm trying to finish up the rankings right now. I hope to get them done by the end of today.

For those that are SUPER EAGER to know things, I came up with adjustment values for NSC at +2.75 and for HSNCT at +4.25.
Fred Morlan
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - I'm Free! (Pre-Nats Done)

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:36 pm

Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 20XX
hsqbrank manager, PACE member (former President and At Large member of Board), NAQT writer & subject editor, HSAPQ freelance writer, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator, 2012 NASAT Tournament Director
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - I'm Free! (Pre-Nats Done)

Postby Edward Powers » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:39 pm

Fred,

FYI---you've accidentally ranked Mountain Lakes of NJ twice---once at # 89 and then again at # 101. I thought you'd like to know.
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