National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Great Bustard » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:50 am

Okay, couple of things here. First, it looks like we are now going to be doing this at Northwestern. It will be a while before I get final confirmation, but I've been assured that securing 16 rooms shouldn't be an issue.
Secondly, as far as the time goes, the whole point of doing it the day after ICT is to give teams from around the country an opportunity to compete. It defeats the purpose if we end too late for most teams to get back that night. If we built in an extra hour into the schedule, that would mean that teams could basically leave at 3:45 at the latest Then they get to O'Hare by, say, 5. Then they get a 6:30pm flight. That's pushing it right there if teams need to make connections en route to where they need to go. Bottom line, this tournament really has to end up by 3:45-4pm at the latest. 5 is not an option - it's too late. We will have plenty of capable, fast readers, lots of experienced directors (and a well thought-out system of who does what, so we don't run into the problems of tournaments where too many TDs spoil the broth).
If we keep tossups and bonuses to 20 questions per round, there's no reason we can't do 30 minute intervals with fast readers, and building an extra hour in would give us leeway. Still, I'd really like to finish up by 3:30, if possible.
Finally, I'm happy to get all matter of advice on running this so that it runs smoothly. I want to make sure that we don't run into a "we told you so" situation at all. The feedback here is helpful; anyone else, please chime in too.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Mike Bentley » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:31 am

Are you able to get 16 rooms in one building at Northwestern? If not, that could add to the delay.

I'd also suggest you look into having staffers rent cars to shuttle people so as to reduce the time spent going between O'Hare and Northwestern.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Great Bustard » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:59 pm

I've been told that at worst, the buildings will be adjacent, if it is in fact 2. I was at NSC last year and know the issues regarding layout - we will try and keep travel time between rooms to an absolute minimum and maybe even put our faster readers in the building with fewer rooms.
As far as shuttling goes, yes, I am going to look into this, but I need to get a sense for who all is coming, and how many cars we are likely to have. I am also considering renting a 15 passenger van; that would likely cost about $200, but might well be worth it. Two trips in that could bring over 6 teams; we might even be able to do 3.
I will post finalized information on costs soon. Registration will not be done through a website, but by emailing me. Don't register yet, though - I'll post when it's open - probably around Thanksgiving.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Susan » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:04 pm

Bear in mind that if you want that lunch break to be 25 minutes (or even to be short at all) you'll have to bring in food that everyone can eat, so you'll need to check to see if anyone who's playing can't handle lactose or gluten or whatever and prepare accordingly.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Mike Bentley » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:05 pm

I'm not sure how the cost compares to renting cars, but perhaps another option is a charter bus or two?
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Great Bustard » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:08 pm

Registration is now open for this. The cost is $295 for a team of 3 or 4, $215 for a team of 2, and $125 if you would like to play it solo. There's a $10 buzzer system discount, limit 2 per team. If you register for a team of 3 or 4 but only show up with 1 or 2, you do not get the discount. Nor should you register for a team of 1 or 2 if you think you will have more than that. Please pay by check or cash the day of the tournament; please don't send payment in advance, and if you don't have payment at the tournament, there's a $50 annoyance fee. It is likely that interested schools can still sign up at ICT, if space is still available, but don't count on that. Teams should register by emailing or sending me a private message. I'll keep an "Expressed interested" and "Registered" list in the first page of the thread.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Cody » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:15 pm

What about a moderator discount?
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Great Bustard » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:36 pm

Sure, $25 off per moderator, on a first-come, first-served basis.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Sun Devil Student » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:53 pm

If it's logistically possible, I might be interested in this event, either alone, as a free agent, or as part of an ASU team (which is not impossible given the preponderance of historians on the ASU team). I might even come to Chicago just for this event if I can't attend ICT (I have a potential schedule conflict on Saturday but not Sunday). Some kind of organized shuttle or taxi transportation back to O'Hare Airport might help, since public transportation takes much longer than automobiles (according to Google Maps). Transportation from the ICT hotel to Northwestern would also be helpful. Maybe a bunch of teams from ICT can split taxis or something?
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Cheynem » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:15 pm

I was under the impression that this was restricted for purely "college" teams, i.e. no free agents.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Great Bustard » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:54 pm

Cheynem wrote:I was under the impression that this was restricted for purely "college" teams, i.e. no free agents.

You have to be enrolled in a college to compete, but you can play on your own. I think that's what Kenneth meant when he said "free agent." That said, you can't play on a team with people who aren't enrolled at your school. Hope that clears up any confusion.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Sun Devil Student » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:19 pm

nationalhistorybeeandbowl wrote:
Cheynem wrote:I was under the impression that this was restricted for purely "college" teams, i.e. no free agents.

You have to be enrolled in a college to compete, but you can play on your own. I think that's what Kenneth meant when he said "free agent." That said, you can't play on a team with people who aren't enrolled at your school. Hope that clears up any confusion.

Ah, ok. I had thought there was a possibility of playing on a mixed team in the event I decided to attend alone with my ASU teammates declining to field a team. Guess not.
In this case, I'd inquire as to the intended difficulty of this event. I would have a lot of fun at Regionals-level-or-below even if I don't win a game, but would be disinclined to play solo on a ACFNationals2011-level tournament. If it's at the normal (pre-2011) Nationals level, which it probably should be, I would still get some utility out of playing solo but not quite as much as I would at lower difficulty (or with teammates). I don't speak on behalf of my teammates, but knowing them, I think they are likely to make similar calculations in deciding whether to field a full ASU team or not - actually, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the target difficulty yet, but let's find out what it is?
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Mike Bentley » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:03 am

Sun Devil Student wrote:
nationalhistorybeeandbowl wrote:
Cheynem wrote:I was under the impression that this was restricted for purely "college" teams, i.e. no free agents.

You have to be enrolled in a college to compete, but you can play on your own. I think that's what Kenneth meant when he said "free agent." That said, you can't play on a team with people who aren't enrolled at your school. Hope that clears up any confusion.

Ah, ok. I had thought there was a possibility of playing on a mixed team in the event I decided to attend alone with my ASU teammates declining to field a team. Guess not.
In this case, I'd inquire as to the intended difficulty of this event. I would have a lot of fun at Regionals-level-or-below even if I don't win a game, but would be disinclined to play solo on a ACFNationals2011-level tournament. If it's at the normal (pre-2011) Nationals level, which it probably should be, I would still get some utility out of playing solo but not quite as much as I would at lower difficulty (or with teammates). I don't speak on behalf of my teammates, but knowing them, I think they are likely to make similar calculations in deciding whether to field a full ASU team or not - actually, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the target difficulty yet, but let's find out what it is?


Matt Weiner's instructions were to write this at around Regionals level, maybe going a little harder when necessary.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Great Bustard » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:04 am

Personally, I'm inclined to prefer a "taller pyramid" meaning that the questions maybe start out with some really obscure stuff for those who can handle that, but by the time the ftp... is read, I'd prefer that they have a majority of answer lines that aren't going to be too far out there. That's what the hard part of a 3 part bonus is for, but I hope that you don't go too far there either in most cases.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Great Bustard » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:12 pm

Any more schools interested in competing? Trying to get a rough estimate of what to expect. Everyone coming to ICT should consider signing up!
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Susan » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:14 pm

nationalhistorybeeandbowl wrote:Any more schools interested in competing? Trying to get a rough estimate of what to expect. Everyone coming to ICT should consider signing up!


It'll probably be easier to start getting a head count once ICT bids have been announced and people know whether or not they're going to be there.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Madagascar Serpent Eagle » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:49 pm

It is very likely that Michigan State will have a team at this; we'll probably confirm this in a couple of weeks.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Great Bustard » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:53 pm

Registrations have been coming in at a good pace for this, and it looks like we could get 20+ teams. If you're coming to Chicago for ICT, hopefully you can stick around on Sunday and play our College Championships too! Email me to sign up / express interest.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Auroni » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:09 pm

Did you get my PM?
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Matt Weiner » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:06 pm

In response to some inquiries in other channels, the distribution for each 40-question (20/20) regular packet of this tournament is:

32 pure history, divided in the previously announced ratio of 35% American, 30% Europe 476-present, 25% world, 10% classical.
2 arts
1 literature
1 history of science
1 social science or philosophy
1 geography
1 trash
1 current events
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Great Bustard » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:13 am

Also, for teams interested in logistical details, expect an email from me with all the ins and outs around March 20-22 or so. Feel free to change/adjust registrations in the meantime.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Great Bustard » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:18 pm

No more moderator discounts as we have 18 teams and 11 moderators for the time being.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Matt Weiner » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:46 am

Hey folks, the set is written and we're getting ready for the event on Sunday. Here is some info:

*We are going to start round 1 at Northwestern at 8 AM on Sunday. Please be on time. We want to run a complete schedule without bumping up against people's return flights so this is really important. I don't want to forfeit anyone but I will if I need to, as doing so in the morning is still less of a headache than fighting the air travel system in the evening.
*In accordance with the above need to save time, we will not be running registration or an opening meeting on-site. You should pay NHBB rep Nick Clusserath at the hotel on Saturday (preferably immediately after ICT ends when everyone is in the big meeting room) and we will let you know by that time where on the Northwestern campus to go on Sunday between 7:30 and 8:00 to give us your buzzers, if any, and pick up a schedule. You will then go directly to your round 1 game.
*Right now, with 20 teams, the format will be two brackets of 10 followed by three playoff games (crossover for teams 1-3 and 4-6, round robin for teams 7-8 and 9-10). The format and schedule may change if more people sign up, but all formats discussed thusfar have either 11 or 12 games for all teams.

If you have further questions about logistics, please post them here to maximize the chance of the right person seeing them in time. Thanks.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Mike Bentley » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:00 am

It's still unclear to me how we're getting from the ICT hotel to Northwestern.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Sun Devil Student » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:03 am

I was under the impression that David Madden was going to drive us from the ICT hotel to Northwestern, and then from Northwestern to O'Hare Airport. Is this correct?
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Cody » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:16 am

Well, if the caravan scheme or whatever doesn't come through, which seems likely given how many local teams are attending, this is what we'll have to do. Hopefully no one was foolish enough to book a flight before, say, 5pm, since it's 2 hours back, too.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Susan » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:27 am

SirT wrote:Well, if the caravan scheme or whatever doesn't come through, which seems likely given how many local teams are attending, this is what we'll have to do. Hopefully no one was foolish enough to book a flight before, say, 5pm, since it's 2 hours back, too.


You'd be better off taking a cab. The fare calculator I used suggested a cab would be $40 and 40 minutes (versus $17-$27 and almost two hours for four people taking public transit). That cab fare may not be entirely accurate and it doesn't include either the small upcharges you get for additional people or a tip, but it's still clearly a good alternative. You may be able to do even better with a town car or a shuttle.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby DumbJaques » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:58 am

Yeah, Susan's figure is pretty much spot-on, and like other people I would *highly* recommend you go this route if you've got a plane to catch and no other alternative to the L. Seriously, it takes FOREVER to get between Northwestern/ORD via the Blue Line, and that assumes no delays (this is not something you want to assume). Fork over the ~$10/person and get a cab.

Also, I'd suggest calling a cab service and setting up a time for them to pick you up, as the nearest reliable place to catch a cab is probably outside one of the hotels in downtown Evanston. That's a good 10-20 minute walk depending on where this tournament ends up running, and even then if a bunch of people are there you might be waiting.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Tees-Exe Line » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:59 am

There's something called the Pace Bus #250 (I believe) that's a considerably less convoluted public transport option. I've done this exactly once, and in the other direction (Evanston to O'Hare), and it also puts you at the airport rather than the Hyatt Rosemont thing. But that should be considered.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Ringil » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:50 pm

On another note, was it decided whether or not there are going to be powers at this tournament?
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Matt Weiner » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:55 pm

Ringil wrote:On another note, was it decided whether or not there are going to be powers at this tournament?


There will be ordinary 15-point powers.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Susan » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:57 pm

Tees-Exe Line wrote:There's something called the Pace Bus #250 (I believe) that's a considerably less convoluted public transport option. I've done this exactly once, and in the other direction (Evanston to O'Hare), and it also puts you at the airport rather than the Hyatt Rosemont thing. But that should be considered.


This is a good option for getting to the airport after the tournament (it runs from the Davis Street CTA station in downtown Evanston to O'Hare and takes about one hour; schedule is here). Unfortunately, on Sunday mornings the earliest bus into Evanston drops you off at 8:16AM, so it's probably not going to be useful for getting to the tournament.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Susan » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:04 pm

Maybe this is being taken care of over email or something, but it might be good if the people who are playing History Bowl and will have cars could post in this thread so that caravan arrangements could be worked out.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Mike Bentley » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:05 pm

So I still haven't heard how I'm getting from O'Hare to Northwestern on Sunday. When will these details be announced? If we're on our own, it would at least be nice to know that ASAP so we can make arrangements.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Matt Weiner » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:49 pm

Teams are on their own, using the taxi or El options posted in the thread if they don't have a car.

Any staffers in addition to Mike who do not have cars and are not part of a team's travel plans should contact me, and I will develop a plan to get us there on Sunday (which will likely either be sharing a cab or going as a group on the train).

If any teams or others with cars have one or more extra seats on Sunday morning that they would be willing to use to transport independent staffers, please also let me know.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Great Bustard » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:00 pm

Below is the text of an email just sent to all participating teams

Hi Everyone,
Quite a few of you have asked in terms of how best to get from the hotel to Northwestern for the tournament. Unfortunately, there haven't been all that many people who have said they have cars available. I can do two shuttle runs from the hotel to Northwestern in the morning, and two shuttle runs in the afternoon with my rental van. About 11 other people can fit inside. Right now, it appears as if it will cost about $140 with tax and insurance. I will make one run leaving the hotel at 6:20 (arriving at 6:55am) and another leaving the hotel at 7:20 (arriving at 7:55am). If you want in on the 7:30 run, it's $10. If you want in on the 6:30, it's $8. If there is no demand for the 6:30, then we'll have just the one run.
Otherwise, I strongly recommend taking cabs over public transport, since connections will be bad on Sunday mornings, and we need to start at 8:15 sharp. In terms of leaving on Sunday, I can leave taking a group at 3:30 (if a team wants to leave that early) and a group leaving at 4:45. If there is demand, I can do a third run at 6:00. In the afternoon, it's $8 to get to O'Hare for everyone.
Please let me know asap if you want in on the van either going to or from Northwestern!!! I will send out another email when we are all filled up. I will post a list tomorrow evening both here and on the forum. If you are not included on that, then please make plans to get a cab or some other ride of your own. The site of the tournament is Kresge Hall Room 4-365 at Northwestern; please arrive between 7:30 and 8:00am. I anticipate the first match will start precisely at 8:15, so please don't be late.
If driving, please park in the Lakeside Parking Structure, which is located at 1 Arts Circle Drive. Kresge Hall is at 1880 Campus Drive. If you trust yourself to arrive via the el, get off at Foster and walk west until you get to campus, and they'll encounter these buildings. Finally, my cell phone is 201 661 3524. Please call me if you are late or have any other questions.
Thanks! -David
PS. Right now, we're back down to 18 teams. We'll announce a final format once we know exactly how many teams are in.
David Madden
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Charbroil » Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:10 am

Was a decision ever reached about whether lunch would be a full hour?
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby grapesmoker » Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:26 pm

Charbroil wrote:Was a decision ever reached about whether lunch would be a full hour?


It won't be if you want to have any hope of finishing on time.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Matt Weiner » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:18 pm

In the undergrad division, Chicago B has finished third and Illinois is about to play Harvard in a final with Harvard having the advantage.

In the overall division, Maryland is playing Chicago A in a one-game tiebreaker for the right to face Uva with the disadvantage in the final.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Matt Weiner » Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:41 pm

Harvard won the UG title in one game.

Chicago defeated Maryland in the play-in and won the first game of the final. In the deciding game, UVa took the first title 340-335 by getting power and 30 on the last question.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Cheynem » Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:46 pm

Congratulations to the winners--sounds like a thrilling finish.

Will this set be posted immediately as I don't see anything about future mirrors?
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Mike Bentley » Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:57 pm

The packets should be posted soon.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Matt Weiner » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:29 pm

Stats: http://hsquizbowl.org/db/tournaments/950/

Questions are open for discussion. The little typos and stuff will be fixed. I will have a specific survey regarding things that might be changed for the future but feel free to post anything here.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Matt Weiner » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:33 am

Due to the discovery that Illinois was not actually undergraduate-eligible, Chicago B has been moved up to second place UG and UCSD is now third place.
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Mike Bentley » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:52 am

Mike Bentley
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby grapesmoker » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:12 pm

Are my ears deceiving me or is the quality of recording substantially improved here over earlier efforts? Is this due to an equipment upgrade?
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Re: National History Bowl - 2012 College National Championships

Postby Mike Bentley » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:34 pm

grapesmoker wrote:Are my ears deceiving me or is the quality of recording substantially improved here over earlier efforts? Is this due to an equipment upgrade?


There has been no change in equipment for several years now.

Edit: That said, I did try to take some of Charlie's suggestions into account, namely saying which team got the bonus and occassionally repeating answers.
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