On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - Herp Derp

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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:45 pm

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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:32 pm

Another Sunday, another present.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:41 pm

Also: I'm going to be dropping teams that I don't have a stat line for that are outside of my top 20. Top 20, I'm pretty comfortable with approximately where to put them. Outside of that, not so much.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:04 pm

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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:07 pm

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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Charles Martel » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:27 pm

Did you see the data for IS-109 from Illinois' Kickoffs?
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:30 pm

I haven't added that data yet.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Remember-the-Alamo-Remember-Goliad » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:40 pm

When it's posted, you may wish to add Edmond Bulldog Invitational (Oklahoma)
using NAQT IS-109.
ThankX!
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:11 pm

After a few weeks of thought, I've decided to disable comments on the WordPress site. The reason I'm doing this is because if things did turn into a flame war over there, it'd be a pain to deal with it, and I'd be the only person who could possibly do anything about it.

This isn't because of any issues we've had - actually, the commenting on it has been pretty darn civil in tone - but just as a preemptive measure.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:29 pm

The average PPB of sets with 25+ stat lines so far this year.

OLEFIN 17.65
HSAPQ #22 16.08
IS108A 15.84
FKT 14.78
IS110A 14.08
BDAT 13.25
IS107 12.93
HFT 12.21
IS109 11.25
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby the charm » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:57 pm

Interesting... is IS109 really that hard or is the field playing it just weaker?
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby No Electricity Required » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:26 am

King of Carrot Flowers wrote:Interesting... is IS109 really that hard or is the field playing it just weaker?

I thought it was a difficult set.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby the charm » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:39 am

Yeah it was pretty tough, we only pulled 19 PPB compared to our 22 on HT22, but I don't know how it compares in difficulty to say, IS107 or BDAT.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby No Electricity Required » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:11 am

Obviously, there's not as much data as there will be eventually, but so far IS109's mean PPB is lower than each of last year's IS sets.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Remember-the-Alamo-Remember-Goliad » Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:00 am

I can't speak to the general situation RE: difficulty of IS 109; however, Cistercian 'A' had a PB of 22.53 for this set while our Cistercian 'B' team had a PB of 14.95 -- both teams competing at the Edmond Memorial Bulldog Tournament on 19 Nov.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby dtaylor4 » Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

The average PPB of 109 is probably being driven down by the sheer number of teams who don't do much of any good quizbowl outside of IHSSBCA Kickoffs.

To give you an idea: in the Wheaton North standard divison, the majority of the 64 teams had less than 10 PPB. At Sterling, 19 of 24 had less than 10 PPB.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Masked Canadian History Bandit » Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:29 pm

PPB of IS-109 is probably not going to be helped by the Ottawa Quizbowl tomorrow. Just a heads up.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Sniper, No Sniping! » Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:02 am

dtaylor4 wrote:The average PPB of 109 is probably being driven down by the sheer number of teams who don't do much of any good quizbowl outside of IHSSBCA Kickoffs.

To give you an idea: in the Wheaton North standard divison, the majority of the 64 teams had less than 10 PPB. At Sterling, 19 of 24 had less than 10 PPB.

109 is going to be played at Rowdy Raider next Saturday. The field for that looks to be pretty competitive and strong. Edit: Maybe it might be too soon to reach conclusions if it has still yet to be played everywhere.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:35 am

dtaylor4 wrote:To give you an idea: in the Wheaton North standard divison, the majority of the 64 teams had less than 10 PPB. At Sterling, 19 of 24 had less than 10 PPB.

The above figure included only the Sterling site and the top division from Wheaton North. Removing these, the average PPB goes from 11.25 to 10.87.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Incorporating the standard division stats from Wheaton North and the AA stats from PORTA, IS109's average ppb is now 10.97.

Also, I just realized I could easily do a top 150 at this point. Sigh.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:09 pm

Okay, I've updated the spreadsheet with all the info I could find. We're up to 1076 stat lines from 60 tournaments on 13 question sets.

Best power rates to date, regardless of sets:

Dorman A: 10.89 powers per game (BDAT)
IMSA A: 10.27 15pg (HT22)
IMSA: 10.18 15pg (OLEFIN)
Auburn: 9.91 15pg (HT22)
"Hothem/Hariharan A": 9.67 15pg (BDAT)
IMSA: 9.56 15pg (IS109)
Dunbar: 9.55 15pg (HT22)
Warren G. Harding: 9.22 15pg (IS108A)
Olmsted Falls: 9.00 15pg (IS108A)
DCC A: 9.00 15pg (DAFT)
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2012 all stats.xlsx
(134 KiB) Downloaded 111 times
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:18 pm

ALSO I updated the difficulty adjustments for sets. You can find the values here.

I'll note that I am looking over my methodology presently, as I use all IS sets as my baseline and presently there's a notable discrepancy (~2 ppb) between IS107 & IS109.

Edit: the effective result of this is that I found HT22 harder than previously determined (so teams depending on performances on this sets will get a boost), and OLEFIN easier than previously determined (so teams depending on performances on this set will dip in the rankings).
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:30 pm

One last post for now: to compare sets with their difficulty from last year, with the understanding of sample sizes/future stats to be incorporated/differing fields/etc:

DAFT: Nearly as difficult
FKT: Much easier - average ppb is almost 3 higher
HFT: average ppb is up about 3/4 of a point
HSAPQ 22: compared with 15, the average ppb is up a bit over 2 points
IS: appears to be down, roughly 1 ppb (I'm too lazy to combine data at this point). Average ppb for the first two IS sets this year and last:

IS-96: 11.95
IS-98: 12.34
IS-107: 12.54
IS-109: 10.74

Same treatment for A sets:

IS-97A: 16.66
IS-99A: 14.51
IS-108A: 15.84
IS-110A: 14.10
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby The Predictable Consequences » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:23 pm

Your PPB from LIFT (on IS109) is prelims-only; not sure if that's intentional or not.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Edward Powers » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:28 pm

Ryan is correct about your use of Preminary LIFT stats. In the 7 match Prelims we played at LIFT, my SJHS team's PPB was 20.66. After our 5 match playoff run where we averaged 23.31 PPB, our 12 match PPB average rose to 21.69. I am not a math whiz, so I am not sure if this roughly 5% increase in our overall average by the end of the day is statistically significant for the general stat lines you are creating here. And if they would not be significant for one team, if changes like this occurred for all teams by the end of the day, would they then have statistical significance for your overall analysis of the set? Or are all of your numbers for IS 109 Prelim numbers, possibly making my questions here statistically irrelevant?
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:40 pm

Yup, I just grabbed the prelim stats and never got around to incorporating the playoff data. I'll try to do this before the next update.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Edward Powers » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:23 pm

I just did some quick math for the PPB in the Preliminary, Consolation, and Championship Rounds at LIFT, and I can see why you might like to use Preliminary Rounds for assessing the big picture. After I give the stats, this comment might make more sense. Assuming my math is accurate, in the Preliminary Rounds, 40 Teams earned 2449 Bonus opportunities, scoring 31,240 Bonus points, for an overall average of 12.76 PPB for the 40 Preliminary Teams.

In the afternoon, 10 Teams played in the Championship brackets, while 15 stayed to play consolation rounds, meaning 15 teams did not stay. The 10 teams in the Championship Brackets earned 389 Bonus opportunities, scoring 7875 points, or, 20.24 PPB. Meanwhile, the 15 teams that stayed to play consolation rounds in the afternoon scored 2720 points on 268 bonus opportunities for an average of 10.15 PPB for those 15 teams. Combined, the 25 Championship and Consolation teams scored a total of 10,595 points as a result of their 657 oppoortunies, for a combined average of 16.13 PPB in the PM games. But, of course, 15 teams that played in the Prelims chose not to stay and play in the afternoon consolation rounds, so, if you want to see how the field as a whole performs, given the fact that a significant % of teams did leave after the Prelims, perhaps Prelim stats are best, at least to determine Set difficuty for an entire field.

Conversely, if you wish to use Sets to help identify with a rough chance of accuracy the best teams across regions, doubtless the combined stats for each team are best. And, BTW, the 10 teams that did make the playoffs at LIFT improved their PPB by almost 4% during their play in the Championship Playoffs. In the morning Prelims, the 10 teams that would make the playoffs scored 16,780 points on 861 Bonus opportunities for a PPB of 19.49. And, as indicated above, in the Championship Playoffs these same teams scored 7875 points on their combined 389 opportunities, for an impressive average of 20.24 PPB.

Whether or not such a 4 % increase for 10 teams in Championship Play is statistically significant or not, I do not know, but it seems these stats, if accurate, do provide a reason for using Preliminary results to gauge ALL teams playing the set, while suggesting that their use to rank TOP teams indicates that Overall or Combined stats should be used. Or so it seems to me. If others with a better grasp of the math can add insight here, it would be appreciated.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:47 pm

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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby ScoBo » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:57 pm

qbrank on November 20 wrote:This time around, I’ve added Michigan State’s HFT mirror, the Western Kentucky Hilltopper Invitational, the Duke Annual Fall Tournament, and the Bill Currie Memorial (I forgot to input the stats to the text display below, but it’s in my database and wouldn’t have resulted in any changes to the rankings).

Did the missing stat lines get added to this update? (Rock Bridge and Helias both attended Bill Currie Memorial and I don't see those stat lines)
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:02 pm

noooooooooope
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby the charm » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:09 pm

Auburn was full strength at Loyburn, answering that question. Belvidere North only had 2 A Team members at Sterling.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Cubfan125 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:11 pm

Latin was missing its top two players at the IHSA kickoffs.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Remember-the-Alamo-Remember-Goliad » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:57 am

Here are the final, complete results of the Edmond Memorial Bulldog Tournament run on IS-109 - Nov. 19, 2011

http://naqt.com/stats/tournament-teams. ... nt_id=3386


Enjoy!
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Remember-the-Alamo-Remember-Goliad » Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:35 pm

Here are the stats for Saturday's Houston Holiday Hoedown(HoHoHo) at St. John's/Houston run on HSAPQ 22:

http://texasquizbowl.org/d/@111203HoHoH ... dings.html

First: Seven Lakes "A"
Second: Cistercian "A"
Third: St. Mark's "A"

Vimal Konduri (Cistercian "A") was tops in the individual stats with 87.55 PPG.
Cistercian "A" played with a 3-man team.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Boeing X-20, Please! » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:30 pm

Loyola was missing it's 2nd, 3rd, and 5th scorers (it was 5v5) at Auburn's HFT mirror, as noted in that thread.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Edward Elric » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:51 pm

Also as I could tell, Wheaton Warrenville South was missing one of there top players and Wheaton North was missing 2 normal A-teamers. Stevenson also was missing David Jin (one of their top players). Hope this helps a bit.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby nadph » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:08 pm

Hey Fred. I know that the first few Northern California tournaments haven't been that useful for rankings because of a lack of PPB stats (this is due to BAAL, which mandates a modified NAQT format in which bonuses are only read after a 15, two consecutive 10s, or tossups 11, 12, 23, and 24 in a round, making PPB difficult to calculate). However, Bellarmine and Berkeley have each run ACF-style novice tournaments, and there is an upcoming ACF-format tournament at Hillsdale. I understand that, since they are novice tournaments, these are less than helpful, but it's all we have in the way of ACF-style this semester (there are definite plans to run harder sets next semester, for what that's worth).
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:15 pm

nadph wrote:Hey Fred. I know that the first few Northern California tournaments haven't been that useful for rankings because of a lack of PPB stats


FYI, I sent Fred complete stat lines for all of the nationals-qualifiers from these tournaments (required a look through my scoresheet archive to calculate ppb).
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby nadph » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:17 pm

bt_green_warbler wrote:
nadph wrote:Hey Fred. I know that the first few Northern California tournaments haven't been that useful for rankings because of a lack of PPB stats


FYI, I sent Fred complete stat lines for all of the nationals-qualifiers from these tournaments (required a look through my scoresheet archive to calculate ppb).


Ah. In that case, please disregard my post. Sorry, Fred and Jeff!

EDIT: I now see that Harker statline near the bottom with a PPB of 22, so I am doubly a fool. Sorry once again.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Broad-tailed Grassbird » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:46 pm

Gus Honeybun wrote:Loyola was missing it's 2nd, 3rd, and 5th scorers (it was 5v5) at Auburn's HFT mirror, as noted in that thread.


How useful is the data if it's 5v5?
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Boeing X-20, Please! » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:07 pm

Pszczew wrote:
Gus Honeybun wrote:Loyola was missing it's 2nd, 3rd, and 5th scorers (it was 5v5) at Auburn's HFT mirror, as noted in that thread.


How useful is the data if it's 5v5?


Pretty useful seeing as a 5th player usually does not make that much of a difference (there are sometimes exceptions, but not usually).
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:06 am

1) I read pretty damn close to every post on this board, without being prompted to. I am especially careful with things where STAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATS would appear. I also check naqt.com and the database on this site regularly.

I don't need 18 posts telling me that a team played in a tournament in the past 24 hours. If I miss a tournament that has posted full stats, or stats as full as possible, you'll know when I leave it out of the rankings without comment for a week. When this happens, I do appreciate being told about missing the event in question, or even if it wasn't missed. Going out of your way to brag about your performance and/or pestering me for an update is just going to piss me off.

2) Players missing from tourneys is good info to know, but it's really only going to make a difference if your performance drops significantly from other events (and even then, I all but disregard it if you have multiple other superior performances).
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:23 pm

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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby tinioril » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:44 pm

The HFT Mirror at Auburn does not have complete afternoon stats.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Weighted Companion Cube » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:44 pm

Are the Autumn classic stats used in the rankings just the prelims? Or do you have the rest of the stats, because I can't find those.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby Broad-tailed Grassbird » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:15 am

Gus Honeybun wrote:
Pszczew wrote:
Gus Honeybun wrote:Loyola was missing it's 2nd, 3rd, and 5th scorers (it was 5v5) at Auburn's HFT mirror, as noted in that thread.


How useful is the data if it's 5v5?


Pretty useful seeing as a 5th player usually does not make that much of a difference (there are sometimes exceptions, but not usually).


so why even mention your fifth player was missing?

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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - where is rhode island

Postby jgalea84 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:11 am

Fred wrote:Okay, I've updated the spreadsheet with all the info I could find. We're up to 1076 stat lines from 60 tournaments on 13 question sets.

Best power rates to date, regardless of sets:

Dorman A: 10.89 powers per game (BDAT)
IMSA A: 10.27 15pg (HT22)
IMSA: 10.18 15pg (OLEFIN)
Auburn: 9.91 15pg (HT22)
"Hothem/Hariharan A": 9.67 15pg (BDAT)
IMSA: 9.56 15pg (IS109)
Dunbar: 9.55 15pg (HT22)
Warren G. Harding: 9.22 15pg (IS108A)
Olmsted Falls: 9.00 15pg (IS108A)
DCC A: 9.00 15pg (DAFT)

awww hell yea!
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby jgalea84 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:14 am

Olmsted Falls was down an assistant coach at Rowdy Raider, FYI.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby etchdulac » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:10 am

Fred wrote:Okay, I've updated the spreadsheet with all the info I could find. We're up to 1076 stat lines from 60 tournaments on 13 question sets.

Best power rates to date, regardless of sets:

Dorman A: 10.89 powers per game (BDAT)
IMSA A: 10.27 15pg (HT22)
IMSA: 10.18 15pg (OLEFIN)
Auburn: 9.91 15pg (HT22)
"Hothem/Hariharan A": 9.67 15pg (BDAT)
IMSA: 9.56 15pg (IS109)
Dunbar: 9.55 15pg (HT22)
Warren G. Harding: 9.22 15pg (IS108A)
Olmsted Falls: 9.00 15pg (IS108A)
DCC A: 9.00 15pg (DAFT)


On HT22, Seven Lakes matched IMSA with 10.27 15 pg.
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Re: On-going Season Rankings V2.0 - so is this where i complain?

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:09 pm

HSQBRank is going to be on recess from now until, at the earliest, after the weekend of January 14.

If I somehow fall into a bunch of free time where I can incorporate this coming weekend's results into the rankings, I will do so, but the odds are very much against that happening.
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