2011 PACE NSC

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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby The Laughing Cavalier » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:18 pm

TheKingInYellow wrote:Well we at State College would very much like to register, but upon our last check were not on the list of qualified teams, so we talked to George and Sarah about it at TIT


I don't know what George told you, but you're on the massive list of teams I'm trying to enter now that that data exists. As Andy said earlier, you're qualified and should go ahead and register if you wish.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby dtaylor4 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:47 pm

Newly qualified teams should have received an email from me. Again, if you didn't, and you think you should have, email me.

Also, we're up to 37 teams from 29 schools representing 13 states + DC. Sarah is working on updating the website right now.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby The Laughing Cavalier » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:33 pm

dtaylor4 wrote:Newly qualified teams should have received an email from me. Again, if you didn't, and you think you should have, email me.

Also, we're up to 37 teams from 29 schools representing 13 states + DC. Sarah is working on updating the website right now.


The registered teams page, affiliated tournaments page, qualified teams page, and qualified teams by state page have all now been updated. My apologies for the delay; as I mentioned in the New Trier thread, I intended to finish last night, but after 26 tournaments I went to sleep, intending to enter the remaining 4 at lunch, and then UVA's internet was glitchy. However, they're all up now, and I'm pleased to announce that we currently have teams qualified from 32 states, the District of Columbia, and Ontario. Teams affected by the multiple team rule confusion: we have not forgotten about you and should hopefully have that information corrected shortly after SCT. Thanks once again for your patience.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Edward Powers » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:24 am

I know the failure to correct the Cheshire, CT. situation from FAcT is not intentional, but it still has not been corrected, despite many requests to do so. So I trust someone from the certification committee will look into this soon so that Cheshire has a chance to decide for itself if it wishes to act on its qualification from FAcT before PACE's National Championship field actually fills up. It is already more than half-full. And a simple check would be to go to the NAQT RESULTS site for FAcT, for its top 4 is, IN FACT :smile: , accurate.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby The Laughing Cavalier » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:51 am

Edward Powers wrote:I know the failure to correct the Cheshire, CT. situation from FAcT is not intentional, but it still has not been corrected, despite many requests to do so. So I trust someone from the certification committee will look into this soon so that Cheshire has a chance to decide for itself if it wishes to act on its qualification from FAcT before PACE's National Championship field actually fills up. It is already more than half-full. And a simple check would be to go to the NAQT RESULTS site for FAcT, for its top 4 is, IN FACT :smile: , accurate.


It's my understanding that there was a miscommunication regarding which person on the certification committee was supposed to be contacting someone to resolve this; if it is definitely the case that that results page is correct I'll fix it myself at lunch today.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Edward Powers » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:43 am

Thank you Sarah.

I know that this was not your direct responsibility, so my message above was not directed to you. Yet your willingness to intervene and to help does not surprise, and my guess is that the people at Cheshire will appreciate your help even if they do not choose to act on their qualification. And, having been in attendance at FAcT and having had my kids play Cheshire for the 3rd/4th place in the cross-bracket playoffs, I can assure you that the NAQT Results page for FAcT is accurate, at least with regard to the Top 4 Placements, and these are, of course, the relevant placements for PACE qualification, are they not?
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby The Laughing Cavalier » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:09 am

Edward Powers wrote:Thank you Sarah.

I know that this was not your direct responsibility, so my message above was not directed to you. Yet your willingness to intervene and to help does not surprise, and my guess is that the people at Cheshire will appreciate your help even if they do not choose to act on their qualification. And, having been in attendance at FAcT and having had my kids play Cheshire for the 3rd/4th place in the cross-bracket playoffs, I can assure you that the NAQT Results page for FAcT is accurate, at least with regard to the Top 4 Placements, and these are, of course, the relevant placements for PACE qualification, are they not?


Those are the statistics we need, thank you, and the webpage has been adjusted accordingly. I've contacted Donald so that he can email Cheshire. My apologies for the delay in this resolution.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Edward Powers » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:15 pm

Sarah,

Thank you for you characteristic efforts to help and resolve problems. There is no need for you to apologize---you have tried to help throughout this process. I am sure it was just a mix-up by others who never intended the delay. The important thing is that this issue has finally been corrected, and you should be thanked for making sure this actually happened. So, once again, thank you.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby dtaylor4 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:34 pm

Update:

We're up to 40 teams, as two teams have registered in the past three days. I know others will be registering soon, and the early payment discount (March 1) is coming up, so I strongly recommend getting it done sooner rather than later.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby dtaylor4 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:51 am

Bump:

We're now up to 52 teams, with over a dozen teams choosing to come to the NSC for the first time. At the rate teams are registering, the field might be full by the end of the month, so if you want to reserve your slot in the field, you should register sooner rather than later.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby AlphaQuizBowler » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:15 pm

Any update on the planned format for this tournament?
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby The Laughing Cavalier » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:25 pm

AlphaQuizBowler wrote:Any update on the planned format for this tournament?


This should be announced once it has been looked over one more time at the PACE meeting this Sunday.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby dtaylor4 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:40 am

Reminder to teams:

If you have not paid your entry fee, you have four weeks to do so before late fees are tacked on.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby millionwaves » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:58 am

The meeting to which Sarah alludes is happening tonight, so it seems very likely (barring something really strange happening) that we'll announce the format after it concludes.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby youngster68 » Tue May 17, 2011 6:06 pm

Is there an estimate for the time things will wrap up on Sunday? Does anyone remember when things ended last year?

We are very excited about this trip to Chicago! Just want to make sure I didn't screw up our return plans.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby theMoMA » Tue May 17, 2011 6:49 pm

All of the logistical info can be found here: PACE NSC 2011 - Logistics & Schedule Information (PDF).
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby youngster68 » Wed May 18, 2011 10:52 am

Perfect! That will give us time to check out The Bean! http://www.cirrusimage.com/chicago_the_bean.htm

Thanks much.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby AlphaQuizBowler » Mon May 30, 2011 10:43 am

Does PACE plan on releasing the prelim brackets before the tournament? Also, given the new format, will only the stats from the first 5 games be used to determine the All-Stars?
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Madagascar Serpent Eagle » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:44 pm

Is there a distribution for this tournament? I recall hearing that it would have zero trash, but don't know anything beyond that.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Mechanical Beasts » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:59 pm

Joe N wrote:Is there a distribution for this tournament? I recall hearing that it would have zero trash, but don't know anything beyond that.

Packets of 20/20, with 3/3 tiebreakers. The 3/3 tiebreakers are 1/1 history, literature, and science. Of the 20/20:
4/4 literature
4/4 history
4/4 science
3/3 RMP
3/3 arts
1/1 SS
1/1 CE/geo
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby No Electricity Required » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:04 pm

Joe N wrote:Is there a distribution for this tournament? I recall hearing that it would have zero trash, but don't know anything beyond that.

As of last year this was the distribution: http://hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7923

Edit: ninja'd by andy watkins
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby AlphaQuizBowler » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:22 pm

Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:
Joe N wrote:Is there a distribution for this tournament? I recall hearing that it would have zero trash, but don't know anything beyond that.

Packets of 20/20, with 3/3 tiebreakers. The 3/3 tiebreakers are 1/1 history, literature, and science. Of the 20/20:
4/4 literature
4/4 history
4/4 science
3/3 RMP
3/3 arts
1/1 SS
1/1 CE/geo

So the only change from last year is that there will be no trash?
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Mechanical Beasts » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:32 pm

AlphaQuizBowler wrote:
Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:
Joe N wrote:Is there a distribution for this tournament? I recall hearing that it would have zero trash, but don't know anything beyond that.

Packets of 20/20, with 3/3 tiebreakers. The 3/3 tiebreakers are 1/1 history, literature, and science. Of the 20/20:
4/4 literature
4/4 history
4/4 science
3/3 RMP
3/3 arts
1/1 SS
1/1 CE/geo

So the only change from last year is that there will be no trash?

Also one subdistributional change: of the 4/4 science, approximately 1.33/1.33 is bio and only 0.67/0.67 is chemistry. This was practically speaking the case at some previous NSCs, since it's very difficult to write 32/32 chemistry or thereabouts while relying on zero biology clues in those questions. This formalizes that situation (and ensures that the "extra" biology questions will be regularly and appropriately distributed) and adds a little biology on top of that past situation.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Not That Kind of Christian!! » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:31 pm

As you may have heard, State College beat Hunter College High School A in a one-game final to win this year's NSC. Thank you to all teams who participated, both for your hard work and for your patience with Saturday's logistical difficulties.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby in on these shenanigans » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:03 am

Mention has been made in another thread of questionable protest procedures affecting at least Hunter and Bellarmine. For those not in the know, including myself, what happened here?
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Rompimientos del Centauro » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:46 am

styxman wrote:Mention has been made in another thread of questionable protest procedures affecting at least Hunter and Bellarmine. For those not in the know, including myself, what happened here?


There were two protests in the packet - the first one involved ambiguity with the answer line, and Bellarmine believed they should have been prompted - the bounceback answer was also ruled incorrect but we felt we could have been prompted as well.
We don't know the result of that protest.

The second protest involved the phrase "this nucleotide" and whether or not "this" referred to the answer or an antecedent (I'm not sure if we can be more specific or not as far as the exact answer line goes). We were ruled incorrect and the bounceback was given to Bellarmine, and the resulting 20 point swing led to them winning 420-400. For convenience's sake we played a replacement bonus and the 3 tossup-bonus cycle tiebreaker, and we won both. We waited for the resolution of the protest which took a while because the control room was also dealing with a 4-way tie in another bracket.
We had conflicting answers as to how the protests were resolved or why.

Including the loss to Bellarmine we had 2 losses, and should have played LASA on a half-packet tiebreaker, and the winner of that game go into a disadvantaged final against State College.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby jonpin » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:56 am

GlitchYC wrote:There were two protests in the packet - the first one involved ambiguity with the answer line, and Bellarmine believed they should have been prompted - the bounceback answer was also ruled incorrect but we felt we could have been prompted as well.
We don't know the result of that protest.

Discussion in the IRC last night included the question writer's conclusion that neither team's answer ("bathing" and "washing the foot") was acceptable or promptable for "ablution"/"wudu" as the latter is a very specific act.

Including the loss to Bellarmine we had 2 losses, and should have played LASA on a half-packet tiebreaker, and the winner of that game go into a disadvantaged final against State College.


There was also a protest in the State College - Bellarmine game which swung the outcome of that game, on the Secretary of the Interior tossup, where SC first-line buzzed with "First Lady". The exact question text wasn't ever posted in chat, but I think the consensus was that the first line was vague enough that State College was within their rights to buzz and give that answer. Awarding them that credit gave them the win in that game. Had Bellarmine's win against State College held up in addition to their win over Hunter, all four teams in discussion (those three plus LASA) would have been 5-2, which I presume would have led to single-elimination semifinals and a final.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby in on these shenanigans » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:01 am

That First Lady buzz happened in my room as well (Ben Carbery of OPRF), and so I remember most of the wording -- bold is what I'm sure on: One person in this position arranged Marion Anderson's performance at the Lincoln Memorial... Carbery protested as well, and I told him (unofficially, of course) that I expected it to be overturned had the score necessitated looking it up.

So how were the protests handled? What exactly happened that led to revisiting of protests?
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Smuttynose Island » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:06 am

When will the official final standings be released, because the "Results" link on the PACE website just goes to the PACE homepage?
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Matthew Jackson » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:10 am

styxman wrote:Mention has been made in another thread of questionable protest procedures affecting at least Hunter and Bellarmine. For those not in the know, including myself, what happened here?


I heard during some lunchtime tournament wrap-up duties, two to three hours after the original Hunter-Bellarmine science protest resolution, that it had been revisited and reversed (based on something about "the clues being contradictory" or "referring to two different things and there being no correct answer"). This gave Hunter the win and Bellarmine the loss, and moved Hunter into a one-game final against SC. Bellarmine had already played a tiebreaker for 4th against Stevenson (and won) by the time they heard this; the reversal removed that final standing and forced the tournament staff to call them back to the tournament for tiebreaker for 5th against Maggie Walker (which they lost) after the All-Star game and awards ceremony had been completed.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Bartleby » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:13 am

styxman wrote:That First Lady buzz happened in my room as well (Ben Carbery of OPRF), and so I remember most of the wording -- bold is what I'm sure on: One person in this position arranged Marion Anderson's performance at the Lincoln Memorial... Carbery protested as well, and I told him (unofficially, of course) that I expected it to be overturned had the score necessitated looking it up.

So how were the protests handled? What exactly happened that led to revisiting of protests?


I suppose with this question, it depends on your definition of "arranged". Although Eleanor Roosevelt resigned her position in the Daughters of the American Revolution due to the fact that Anderson was not allowed to perform at Constitution Hall, it was the Secretary of the Interior, under pressure from FDR, who organized the concert/permitted it to happen where it did.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/weeki ... gewanted=2
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Cody » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:23 am

RyuAqua wrote:(based on something about "the clues being contradictory" or "referring to two different things and there being no correct answer")

The problem here is that neither of these two things are true of the bonus part in question, according to both reputable sources and science players knowledgeable in this specific area.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Kyle » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:03 am

Hey, I wanted to address the mini-controversy over the bonus part about ablution. I wrote this bonus, which was then edited by Trygve and Andy. I haven't seen the final form that the bonus took, but I assume it was relatively similar to what I originally wrote:

For 10 points each, answer the following questions about circumstances that make practicing Islam complicated.
[10] If you live north of the Arctic Circle and Ramadan falls during the summer, you’re kind of screwed. Fortunately, one fatwa-sanctioned solution is to fast according to the position of the sun above this holy shrine in Mecca.
ANSWER: Ka‘ba
[10] If you are standing on Mecca’s antipode, it’s hard to find this direction in which you should pray. A simple solution is to take one step forward, after which this direction will be in front of you.
ANSWER: qibla
(note: this is sort of theoretical because Mecca’s antipode covered by water)
[10] Finding the qibla is even more difficult on a space shuttle, but perhaps a more serious problem is that, with a water shortage and no gravity, it is almost impossible to perform this action required before prayer.
ANSWER: ablution [or wudu'; be generous and accept ghusl too]


First of all, "bathing" is very much not acceptable, as Muslims do not bathe before every prayer (this would be an awfully unreasonable tax on the environment in Saudi Arabia, if you think about it).

I do, however, see how one might make the argument that "washing the feet" is worthy of a prompt. It did not occur to me that that answer might be given, which was a bad oversight; obviously, I should have discussed it with Andy and Trygve and should have specified whether to prompt or to disallow it explicitly. I apologize for the confusion that my bonus caused.

The argument that one might make that "washing the feet" is deserving of a prompt relies on the fact that washing one's feet is in fact part of the process of the particular form of ablution that occurs before prayer. It is, however, only the fourth part of a four-step process that involves the invocation of God's name and the ritual washing of other parts of the body as well. You can see ablution performed for yourself in this YouTube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpHcw9uvU6E

It is my understanding that "reverse prompts" on given answers that give a very specific part of a more general line are generally applicable only in the rarest of circumstances. In this case, the protesting team identified a particular action that comprised part, but not the whole, of a larger ritual. As such, my personal opinion is that the team should not have been prompted on the answer of "washing the feet." Had I been asked my opinion on the protest, I would have given this explanation and advised that the protest be denied.

Charles Meigs wrote a tossup on several different forms of ablution (different Arabic words refer to different forms of ritual washing) for the 2008 Minnesota Open. Here is the text of his tossup:

11. One special form of this act involving soil was once performed by 'Amr Ibn al-Aas when he had a wet dream on a particularly cold night. In that form, whose name translates as purpose, the act can be violated by the sight of water. The more full form of it is required upon ejaculation, though a lesser form of it is required if one only ejaculates pre-seminal fluid, and the more full form is not required if the penis penetrates to the point of circumcision. Abu Rafi' related that the prophet Muhammad would perform the full form of this each time he visited one of his wives on the same day, although one fatwa recommends only the lesser form of this between goes as it is "more energizing for the second time." If Andy Watkins performed the lesser form of this and punched the wall of a mosque, leading to blood, he would have to repeat it. Tayammum is done without water, while ghusl and/or wudu' are necessary before performing salat. For 10 points, name this Islamic act of ritual washing.
ANSWER: Islamic ablution [prompt on wudu', ghusl, tayammum or taharah, they are all different things and there is no Arabic overarching term for them; prompt on washing or equivalents]


This answer line does include a prompt on "washing," but not explicitly on "washing the feet." You can make of this what you will.

Again, I'm sorry for any confusion that my bonus part may have caused and I apologize for not including more specific directions in the answer line.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Mike Bentley » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:33 am

Unless it changed in final editing, here's the Secretary of the Interior question:

One holder of this position arranged Marion Anderson’s famous concert on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. A deputy to this position named J. Stevens Griles was implicated in the Jack Abramoff scandal. Louis Glavis accused James R. Garfield’s replacement in this position of negligence due to that man’s improper dealings with the Guggenheims’ attempts to secure interests in (*) Alaska. In addition to Harold Ickes and Richard Ballinger, a third holder of this position convinced Edward Denby to transfer two naval oil reserves to his department, then sold those reserves in the Teapot Dome Scandal. For 10 points, name this Cabinet position formerly held by Albert Fall and currently held by Ken Salazar, the head of a department that oversees the U.S. Geological Survey and the National Park Service.
ANSWER: Secretary of the Interior


I apologize for not doing more research on that leadin and making it unambiguous that it was looking for a cabinet post. Dwight had mentioned to me along with this submission that this is depicted on a mural at the Department of the Interior so I should have at least looked that up and remembered that Eleanor Roosevelt was also involved in this.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Madagascar Serpent Eagle » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:02 pm

jonpin wrote:
GlitchYC wrote:There were two protests in the packet - the first one involved ambiguity with the answer line, and Bellarmine believed they should have been prompted - the bounceback answer was also ruled incorrect but we felt we could have been prompted as well.
We don't know the result of that protest.

Discussion in the IRC last night included the question writer's conclusion that neither team's answer ("bathing" and "washing the foot") was acceptable or promptable for "ablution"/"wudu" as the latter is a very specific act.

Including the loss to Bellarmine we had 2 losses, and should have played LASA on a half-packet tiebreaker, and the winner of that game go into a disadvantaged final against State College.


There was also a protest in the State College - Bellarmine game which swung the outcome of that game, on the Secretary of the Interior tossup, where SC first-line buzzed with "First Lady". The exact question text wasn't ever posted in chat, but I think the consensus was that the first line was vague enough that State College was within their rights to buzz and give that answer. Awarding them that credit gave them the win in that game. Had Bellarmine's win against State College held up in addition to their win over Hunter, all four teams in discussion (those three plus LASA) would have been 5-2, which I presume would have led to single-elimination semifinals and a final.


I made this exact same buzz in the same place as Ben Carbery apparently did, and my protest was upheld. I think the story of how Eleanor Roosevelt helped arrange it is pretty well known, isn't it?
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Susan » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:06 pm

SirT wrote:
RyuAqua wrote:(based on something about "the clues being contradictory" or "referring to two different things and there being no correct answer")

The problem here is that neither of these two things are true of the bonus part in question, according to both reputable sources and science players knowledgeable in this specific area.


What was the question?
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Cody » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:13 pm

Susan wrote:What was the question?

[10] In order to add a 5’ (“five prime”) cap to RNA, a certain nitrogenous base is removed from this molecule and then methylated. This nucleotide provides the energy necessary to attach tRNA to the A site of a ribosome, as well as translocation of the ribosome along an mRNA strand.
ANSWER: guanosine 5’ triphosphate [or GTP]
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Auroni » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:30 pm

I just remembered that guanine isn't a nucleotide at all, but GTP is. Guanine is the "certain nitrogenous base" removed from the molecule GTP. This question isn't ambiguous at all.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby The Laughing Cavalier » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:35 pm

waddle1 wrote:When will the official final standings be released, because the "Results" link on the PACE website just goes to the PACE homepage?

Dan Goff says this will be fixed when we get to his house sometime late tonight. We're currently only able to get online on our phones.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby cvdwightw » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:40 pm

I apologize for the snafu on the Interior question.

There are other sources, e.g., Britannica, that credit E. Roosevelt with helping to arrange the concert. I did not check these sources. I believe that my word choice is correct; however, I understand how it is difficult to parse the difference between "arrange" (as in "make logistical arrangements for something") and "arrange for" (as in "ensure something happens") during the question. In retrospect, I initially thought I should have used a less ambiguous word choice, but I now realize that no matter what word I used there, people would have still negged with E. Roosevelt, even if it had included the word "Cabinet" before "position."

For the record, this is the mural mentioned in my note to Mike.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Tanay » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:20 am

The "Secretary of the Interior" question was the protested one in our game against State College. Upon reading various sources online, it's pretty clear that only one individual was ever assigned to arrange Marion Anderson's concert, and that is Harold Ickes.

With Constitution Hall unwilling to host Anderson, Ickes, who as Interior Secretary controlled access to federal parks and monuments, stepped in at the request of the N.A.A.C.P. to arrange an outdoor concert at the Lincoln Memorial. (Ickes first asked Franklin Roosevelt for permission, and the President reportedly said: "I don't care if she sings from the top of the Washington Monument, as long as she sings.")


Eleanor Roosevelt's role in this matter was resigning from the Daughters of the American Revolution in frustration.

The NAACP then stepped in, launching a publicity campaign intended to embarrass the DAR into allowing Anderson to perform at Constitution Hall. But the group stood firm, even after Eleanor Roosevelt publicly resigned as a result of its prosegregation stance. following an abortive attempt to arrange a recital in the auditorium of an all-white local high school, Hurok had the idea of presenting an outdoor concert; Walter White, the NAACP's executive secretary, suggested that it take place at the Lincoln Memorial, and Secretary of the Interior Harold Ickes promptly authorized an Easter Sunday performance.


A simple Google search would have yielded the necessary clarification in this instance, but the prospect of verifying information on an answer that was so widely contested seemed not to have been considered.

At best, Roosevelt's role was equivalent to that of many other people, who (it seems) could have been accepted as answers at this point in the question.
The public was outraged, famous musicians protested, and First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt resigned from the Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR), who owned the hall. Roosevelt, along with Hurok and Walter White of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), encouraged Secretary of the Interior Harold Ickes to arrange a free open-air concert on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial for Easter Sunday. On April 9, Marian sang before 75,000 people and millions of radio listeners. About her trepidation before the event, she said:


In this case, PACE's protest committee eschewed the process of fact-checking in favor of a blanket ruling that "First Lady" was acceptable through a line of reasoning that went something like
Joe N wrote:I think the story of how Eleanor Roosevelt helped arrange it is pretty well known, isn't it?


My other concern is the lack of use of backup questions for issues like this. I remember one room in our building being held up during Phase One to bring both teams back in and read tiebreaker questions to resolve a game, and I wonder why this couldn't be used for the super-playoffs. Given that PACE's writers work to produce enough questions to have backups for poorly-worded ones or moderator mistakes, why can't a situation such as this be resolved by reading the backup question within the packet? This works especially well in the case outlined here, since history is one of the three subjects represented in replacement questions in each packet, and would be the fairest way to settle any ambiguity.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby The King's Flight to the Scots » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:36 am

Britannica wrote:In 1939, when the Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR) refused to let Marian Anderson, an African American opera singer, perform in Constitution Hall, Eleanor resigned her membership in the DAR and arranged to hold the concert at the nearby Lincoln Memorial.


The Packet wrote:One holder of this position arranged Marion Anderson’s famous concert on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial
.

Honestly, a buzz of "First Lady" here seems pretty much entirely justified, especially since that's what everyone buzzed with. The protest may have been handled poorly, but I gotta say that rejecting that answer would be splitting hairs.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby wexs883198215 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:37 am

waddle1 wrote:When will the official final standings be released, because the "Results" link on the PACE website just goes to the PACE homepage?

I think the results link should be http://www.pace-nsc.org/?p=1530 instead of http://www.pace-nsc.org/?=1530. The correct link doesn't say very much except for top 4 teams and all-stars though.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Remember-the-Alamo-Remember-Goliad » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:04 am

Thank you for this update with at least some information.
I await full posted results: "Expectans expectavi" as St. Jerome's Vulgate states it.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby The Laughing Cavalier » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:08 am

Remember-the-Alamo-Remember-Goliad wrote:Thank you for this update with at least some information.
I await full posted results: "Expectans expectavi" as St. Jerome's Vulgate states it.


I spoke to Donald Taylor when he got home late last night after a very long drive that was delayed because he had to drive several other staffers to the airport and return a few buzzer systems that were left at Northwestern. I'm sure he will post the stats as soon as he is able to, and one of us with access to the PACE website will also make them available there. Meanwhile thanks, everyone, for your patience.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Remember-the-Alamo-Remember-Goliad » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:10 am

THANK YOU!
MUCHAS GRACIAS!
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby jgalea84 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:21 am

MLWGS-Gir wrote:
Remember-the-Alamo-Remember-Goliad wrote:Thank you for this update with at least some information.
I await full posted results: "Expectans expectavi" as St. Jerome's Vulgate states it.


I spoke to Donald Taylor when he got home late last night after a very long drive that was delayed because he had to drive several other staffers to the airport and return a few buzzer systems that were left at Northwestern. I'm sure he will post the stats as soon as he is able to, and one of us with access to the PACE website will also make them available there. Meanwhile thanks, everyone, for your patience.

Is there anyone with access to at least the final standings who could post them somewhere? (blog, this board, etc?)

Please don't tell me that Donald Taylor is the only person with access to the data.

It's a bit ironic that a tournament that went to such great lengths to break every tie it could with half-packets hasn'teven posted the results of that tie-breaking.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby theMoMA » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:04 pm

The final order will be posted tonight. I have it.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby The Motley Eye » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:10 pm

MLWGS-Gir wrote:
waddle1 wrote:When will the official final standings be released, because the "Results" link on the PACE website just goes to the PACE homepage?

Dan Goff says this will be fixed when we get to his house sometime late tonight. We're currently only able to get online on our phones.


I crashed immediately when we got home last night, but this has been corrected. The page as it exists right now only has the top four teams plus the all-stars. I'll include a link to the full stats there as soon as I know they are available.
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Re: 2011 PACE NSC

Postby Strange Fascination » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:32 pm

Cernel Joson wrote:
Britannica wrote:In 1939, when the Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR) refused to let Marian Anderson, an African American opera singer, perform in Constitution Hall, Eleanor resigned her membership in the DAR and arranged to hold the concert at the nearby Lincoln Memorial.


The Packet wrote:One holder of this position arranged Marion Anderson’s famous concert on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial
.

Honestly, a buzz of "First Lady" here seems pretty much entirely justified, especially since that's what everyone buzzed with. The protest may have been handled poorly, but I gotta say that rejecting that answer would be splitting hairs.


The problem is: every DC/Lincoln Memorial tour guide, History Channel special on the Roosevelts, and even many textbooks will tell you that E. Roosevelt arranged it. It's not exactly true, but it's what many people see as true (including me until yesterday). I'm not going to speak to how a protest should have been resolved, but I will say that this lead-in could have used a "Although it's not the First Lady" or even a completely different clue.
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