THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Old college threads.

THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Lapego1 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:25 am

The University of Pennsylvania will be hosting a mirror of THUNDER II, on December 4, 2010 in Philadelphia, PA. It has been announced as a regular difficulty tournament, and no one has to write a packet for this. A slightly more detailed page about this tournament is here. Fee structure is as follows:

Base fee per team: $100
Competent Moderator: -$10 each
Functional Buzzer: -$10 each
Distance: -$10 per 200 miles traveled
Min Fee per school: $60

Further discounts can be arranged for high school, completely new, or depleted teams. Registrations should be sent to pennquizbowl@gmail.com (NOT padt@dolphin.upenn.edu as in the past--we have no way of seeing this if you send it here). You can contact me at that address with other questions or post your questions here.

Location/Timing/Parking: Registration will take place from 8:15am to 8:45am in the Hall of Flags of Houston Hall. This is also labeled room G26. Following the opening meeting, we'll move to the adjacent Williams Hall where games are played as usual, with a plan to start as close to 9am as possible. Here is a searchable map: http://www.facilities.upenn.edu/map.php. Weekend parking is available for $7 at lots indicated here. I recommend you plan on lot 19, as that's the one that's most reliably open at all times. You can also park for free along Spruce Street at numbers labeled 40th and higher, but keep in mind that parking is often difficult to find here and you need to be at Houston Hall, which is at 35th and Spruce, by 8:45am.

Payments: Checks should be made out in my name--"Mehdi Razvi" (preferable) or to "Trustees of the University of Pennsylvania" should a more official name be necessary. Try to spell it right as I don't know what horrors await me if you do not. You should arrange to pay me the morning of the tournament. Otherwise, you should e-mail me in advance giving me an expected date of payment. I'll have invoices for everyone on the day of the tournament and can provide them earlier if necessary.

Field Update (as of 11/30/10):
Columbia (1 team, 2 buzzers)
CMU (1 team, 2 buzzers)
Delaware (1 team, 2 buzzers)
George Mason (1 team, 1 buzzer)
Maryland (1 team, 2 buzzers)
Penn State (1 team, 2 buzzers, 1 staffer)
Princeton (2 teams, 1 buzzer)
Rutgers-Camden (1 team, 0 buzzers)
State College HS (1 team, 1 buzzer)
Ursinus (1 team, 0 buzzers)
UVA (1 team, 1 buzzer)
Total: 12 teams, 14 buzzers, 1 staffer
Last edited by Lapego1 on Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:39 am, edited 26 times in total.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby pennstateqb » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:38 am

Fantastic! Penn State would like to bring 1 team and 2 buzzers ($80 fee).
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Lapego1 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:01 pm

pennstateqb wrote:Fantastic! Penn State would like to bring 1 team and 2 buzzers ($80 fee).

Please e-mail me at the above address, so I can have contact info for your team.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Skepticism and Animal Feed » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:22 pm

Since I'm the only member of the Georgetown quizbowl team interested in playing, can I be granted some kind of free agent status to join any other team that might need extra people? I don't have any particular team in mind at this point.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:39 pm

Morraine Man wrote:Since I'm the only member of the Georgetown quizbowl team interested in playing, can I be granted some kind of free agent status to join any other team that might need extra people? I don't have any particular team in mind at this point.


We'll see, Bruce, when the field starts to coalesce. As of right now I'm willing to put you in a free agent pool.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby nurgles_herald » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:07 pm

Oh, right, Zydney already posted.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby mpellegrini » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:03 am

As noted here U. Delaware is planning to send 2-3 teams.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Lapego1 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:47 pm

Bump. There's about a month to go before this, so hoping to see registrations from some of the usual suspects soon!
EDIT: Also if you've posted here or elsewhere that you plan on coming, please also e-mail pennquizbowl@gmail.com so we can have your contact info and I can get buzzer/staffer info from you.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus » Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:03 pm

There appears to be at least some interest in running Mike Bentley's "Eyes that Do Not See II" visual arts tournament at THUNDER. Please post in this thread if you are interested in playing; all of the rooms in which THUNDER will be played have easy projector access, so it should be fairly easy to set up.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby DumbJaques » Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:33 pm

I and (at minimum) any Maryland people unfortunate enough to require my car to escape Philadelphia will be present for Eyes.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Lapego1 » Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:24 am

I'm going to need some final numbers on teams VERY soon (like this week) so I can get the proper number of rooms--we may be limited on the number of rooms we can get in one building.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby grapesmoker » Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:00 pm

Lapego1 wrote:I'm going to need some final numbers on teams VERY soon (like this week) so I can get the proper number of rooms--we may be limited on the number of rooms we can get in one building.


I don't know if you have this already, but I'm playing this with Trevor Davis and Dimitri from CMU.

edit: oh, just saw that you did have this. We'll probably bring one buzzer, unless Trevor says different.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby mpellegrini » Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:57 pm

I think at least one Delaware team will be interested in playing Eyes that Do Not See II. I will ask at our meeting this week to confirm and post here afterward.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby BroNi » Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:20 pm

Just a heads up. If we can work out transportation to Richmond, VA, we will be going to GSAC instead of this. We will let you know definitively by Monday evening.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Lapego1 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:14 am

I'm having to set the cap at 16 teams due to room limitations. Depending on final numbers from some teams, we've reached or are at least very close to this cap. Any additional teams will be added to a waitlist.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Skepticism and Animal Feed » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:22 am

Is there room for me on any team?
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Vernon Lee Bad Marriage, Jr. » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:42 am

You could probably join Rutgers, assuming that's just Nick Clusserath again. Alternatively, you could join our 2-man team or something.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Nick » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:21 pm

I dont know what the rules are on this but ive discussed it with the entire rutgers-camden team and we'd love to have you join us. Otherwise, yea, it will just be me playing alone.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Lapego1 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:36 pm

Managed to get two more rooms, so the field cap is now going to be 20. Currently there is room for a few more.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby TheHumanPaperweight » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:52 pm

Do we have a read on what building we're in?
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Lapego1 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:31 pm

TheHumanPaperweight wrote:Do we have a read on what building we're in?

I changed some info in the first post to reflect both location and parking. Note these changes, as I realized I forgot to change some stuff from last year! I'll send out a confirmation of this info to team representatives this evening.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby zmh204 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:24 pm

Is there any way NYU could get in on this? I sent someone an email but never received a response. Hopefully the forum will work out better.

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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Lapego1 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:28 pm

zmh204 wrote:Is there any way NYU could get in on this? I sent someone an email but never received a response. Hopefully the forum will work out better.

Much Love,
Zac

Try sending said e-mail again to pennquizbowl@gmail.com. There's still room.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby mpellegrini » Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:20 pm

Delaware has 6 players for our two teams. So if there are any free agents or half-teams out there, contact me and we can work something out.

Also, none of my teammates want to do Eyes that Do Not See, so it looks like we won't be staying for it after all.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Lapego1 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:31 am

mpellegrini wrote:Delaware has 6 players for our two teams. So if there are any free agents or half-teams out there, contact me and we can work something out.

Also, none of my teammates want to do Eyes that Do Not See, so it looks like we won't be staying for it after all.

Actually, it'd be great format-wise if your two could join up with a team already out there because we won't be able to field house teams and are still stuck at 17 at the moment.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby mpellegrini » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:55 am

Lapego1 wrote:Actually, it'd be great format-wise if your two could join up with a team already out there because we won't be able to field house teams and are still stuck at 17 at the moment.


I certainly don't object, and I don't think anyone on my team will. Anyone out there want to merge teams?
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Columbia Quiz Bowl » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:46 pm

Hi, this is Josh from Columbia. It's possible we'll only want to send one team. I'll do my best to let you know by the end of today. I wouldn't have brought it up-- Rafael says he had to pester you a lot to get a second team in-- but apparently you have one team too many anyway, so I figured this could solve that problem. It depends on how many people confirm. I think right now we're sending six, possibly seven people, but I'm not too committed to going and at least one of our other guys wasn't either, so we might be able to get it down to four. Again, I'll let you know as soon as I can.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Columbia Quiz Bowl » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:23 pm

Um, actually, forget about the previous post I guess. I think we're going to bring two teams and I can work this out directly via e-mail, Rafael just sent me all the relevant contact info and such.

(Wait, why does this post just go up whereas the previous one needed to be approved by a moderator? ...never mind. Someone can delete this or whatever.)
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:42 pm

Columbia Quiz Bowl wrote:(Wait, why does this post just go up whereas the previous one needed to be approved by a moderator? ...never mind. Someone can delete this or whatever.)


The first seven posts from new accounts are moderated by the staff to protect the board from spammers.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Columbia Quiz Bowl » Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:27 pm

Uh huh. Well, anyway, we will be sending two teams.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Lapego1 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:32 pm

Pitt had to drop, so we're at 15 teams now. Would prefer to make that 16 somehow. 14 is kind of sucky as we can really only do two prelim brackets of 7, so there will be byes.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Columbia Quiz Bowl » Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:50 pm

Oh for the love of God. Dan Passner is sick and someone else can't go. So Columbia is down to one team. Sorry, this has all been completely last-minute but there's nothing I can do about it.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Cheynem » Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:57 pm

NOOOOOO! STAY ALIVE DAN!
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Lapego1 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:52 pm

If everyone else stays the way they are for the moment, we're at 14 teams with 12 packets + finals. We'll do two brackets of 7, then top 4 from each advance to an upper bracket and bottom 3 to a lower bracket and play a cross-bracket round robin with prelim games against the teams in your playoff bracket carrying over. This burns 7 + 4 (or 3 for bottom) packets and then we'll have finals as necessary.

EDIT: Also, Eyes That Do Not See will be run afterwards. It'll be $5 per person.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby The Fifth Dimension » Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:31 pm

Will there still be byes factored in? I just want to clarify.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby DumbJaques » Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:35 pm

Maryland, like Delaware, only has six players for two teams, and I presume Rutgers-Nick is also shorthanded to some degree. Maybe it would be possible to get down to 12 and avoid byes?
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Lapego1 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:06 pm

DumbJaques wrote:Maryland, like Delaware, only has six players for two teams, and I presume Rutgers-Nick is also shorthanded to some degree. Maybe it would be possible to get down to 12 and avoid byes?

That would work. I have both of you guys at two teams currently. If we cut those two and have some of you join Nick (and Bruce?) and some Jerry + Trevor (if they're okay with it), I have no problem with it. We'd do a full round robin with 12 teams + finals if necessary (no byes).

And to answer a question upthread, the 14-team format would indeed involve byes.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby mpellegrini » Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:51 pm

Lapego1 wrote: If we cut those two and have some of you join Nick (and Bruce?) and some Jerry + Trevor (if they're okay with it), I have no problem with it. We'd do a full round robin with 12 teams + finals if necessary (no byes).


No objections here.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby DumbJaques » Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:29 pm

Yeah, we'd be fine with that - like I tell our freshmen every day, there's no such thing as too much Bruce.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Skepticism and Animal Feed » Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:40 pm

Yeah, I'll play on the Maryland/Rutgers hybrid team.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Skepticism and Animal Feed » Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:20 pm

So I'm a moron and thought this was next week. Thus, I didn't make travel arrangements until Charles Meigs called me a few minutes ago and asked me if I was playing THUNDER.

Unless a team driving up from DC can pick me up tomorrow morning, I will be unable to make this.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Pilgrim » Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:26 am

Lapego1 wrote:That would work. I have both of you guys at two teams currently. If we cut those two and have some of you join Nick (and Bruce?) and some Jerry + Trevor (if they're okay with it)

This is fine with me personally, but we only have one open slot - As Jerry said upthread, we're playing with Dmitriy from CMU. Also, FWIW, we have two buzzers, not the one that Jerry guessed.
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby sidc » Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:19 am

Here are running stats for the tournament

http://results.scobo.net/penn/thunderii
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby nurgles_herald » Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:18 am

Not to sound naggy, but I, Cow, definitely got some TUs during Penn State's game against Princeton B. That said, great tournament, lots of fun, and Penn State looks forward to attending the next one! Great work, folks!
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby mpellegrini » Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:36 am

I had an exceptionally good time at this tournament. The questions were accessible and the field was competitive. We had three of our matches - against State College, Princeton A, and George Mason - come down to the final question and managed to lose all of them :sad:

There were a couple of inexperienced moderators that could use some practice, but otherwise I was very happy with the hosting. I would definitely go back to this tournament in future years.
Mark Pellegrini
University of Delaware (2001-Present)
Charter School of Wilmington (1997-2001)
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby TheHumanPaperweight » Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:42 am

nurgles_herald wrote:Not to sound naggy, but I, Cow, definitely got some TUs during Penn State's game against Princeton B. That said, great tournament, lots of fun, and Penn State looks forward to attending the next one! Great work, folks!



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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby Lapego1 » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:24 am

Since stats don't reflect it, the CMU team beat Maryland in two straight games in the finals to win the tournament. I'll add the stats for those last two rounds in as soon as I can.
Mehdi Razvi
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby DumbJaques » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:17 pm

I enjoyed this tournament and thought it was solidly run, though there were 1-2 rooms with simply unacceptable moderators. Look, people should not be buzzing in halfway through Norse myth tossups and very reasonably guessing things from Hindu mythology; as a moderator, you should consider this a big red flag. I've actually noticed that almost every Penn tournament, while on the whole filled with competent moderators, has a small handful of atrocious rooms that everyone waits outside of and complains about. I think there are probably enough people in the area that moderators could be recruited to correct this (if we had been told, for instance, there was a moderator shortage, we could have brought one), so I'm hopefully a new strategy might produce the first ever pre-8pm finish for Penn Bowl next month.

This shouldn't give the impression that things went badly or anything - I thought this was a significantly better-administrated tournament than previous years, and that Mehdi and co. did a fine job.

EDIT:

A handful of people hung around to play Eyes that Do Not See, as well. Per Mehdi, here are the stats:

Code: Select all
Paul (2 4 1): 60
Isaac (1 5 16): -15
Chris (9 26 20): 295
Eric (3 14 8): 145
Jerry (5 15 25): 100
Chris from Maryland
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Re: THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

Postby mcgroth » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:54 am

DumbJaques wrote:I enjoyed this tournament and thought it was solidly run, though there were 1-2 rooms with simply unacceptable moderators. Look, people should not be buzzing in halfway through Norse myth tossups and very reasonably guessing things from Hindu mythology; as a moderator, you should consider this a big red flag. I've actually noticed that almost every Penn tournament, while on the whole filled with competent moderators, has a small handful of atrocious rooms that everyone waits outside of and complains about. I think there are probably enough people in the area that moderators could be recruited to correct this (if we had been told, for instance, there was a moderator shortage, we could have brought one), so I'm hopefully a new strategy might produce the first ever pre-8pm finish for Penn Bowl next month.

I agree with Chris's moderator sentiments. I wonder if it would be worth trying to "coach" these moderators, though. Obviously some people are just better moderators than others, but I felt that the biggest issue with some of the moderators here was simply a lack of confidence (in pronunciation and in making rulings on given answers). Confidence is something that everybody can build up if they're willing to do so. In the case of pronunciation, almost everybody has difficulty with pronouncing certain things, just give it your best shot and move on. In the case of making rulings, just make an informed decision and if the team wants to protest your ruling, they can - not a big deal. If some of the more experienced Penn players were to make a point of enforcing confident moderating during practices (both through example and by encouraging it in less experienced moderators), I'd be willing to bet that the overall moderating at future Penn tournaments would noticeably improve.

I really enjoyed this tournament, much like last year. A somewhat undesirable question might have popped up here or there, but overall I was very happy :grin: with THUNDER II.
Matthew Groth
University of Delaware '11
Vice President and Primary Liaison for External Tournaments Emeritus, University of Delaware Academic Competition Club
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