THUNDER II at Penn 12/4/10

[Lapego1]

The University of Pennsylvania will be hosting a mirror of THUNDER II, on December 4, 2010 in Philadelphia, PA. It has been announced as a regular difficulty tournament, and no one has to write a packet for this. A slightly more detailed page about this tournament is here. Fee structure is as follows:

Base fee per team: $100
Competent Moderator: -$10 each
Functional Buzzer: -$10 each
Distance: -$10 per 200 miles traveled
Min Fee per school: $60

Further discounts can be arranged for high school, completely new, or depleted teams. Registrations should be sent to pennquizbowl@gmail.com (NOT padt@dolphin.upenn.edu as in the past--we have no way of seeing this if you send it here). You can contact me at that address with other questions or post your questions here.

Location/Timing/Parking: Registration will take place from 8:15am to 8:45am in the Hall of Flags of Houston Hall. This is also labeled room G26. Following the opening meeting, we'll move to the adjacent Williams Hall where games are played as usual, with a plan to start as close to 9am as possible. Here is a searchable map: http://www.facilities.upenn.edu/map.php. Weekend parking is available for $7 at lots indicated here. I recommend you plan on lot 19, as that's the one that's most reliably open at all times. You can also park for free along Spruce Street at numbers labeled 40th and higher, but keep in mind that parking is often difficult to find here and you need to be at Houston Hall, which is at 35th and Spruce, by 8:45am.

Payments: Checks should be made out in my name--"Mehdi Razvi" (preferable) or to "Trustees of the University of Pennsylvania" should a more official name be necessary. Try to spell it right as I don't know what horrors await me if you do not. You should arrange to pay me the morning of the tournament. Otherwise, you should e-mail me in advance giving me an expected date of payment. I'll have invoices for everyone on the day of the tournament and can provide them earlier if necessary.

Field Update (as of 11/30/10):
Columbia (1 team, 2 buzzers)
CMU (1 team, 2 buzzers)
Delaware (1 team, 2 buzzers)
George Mason (1 team, 1 buzzer)
Maryland (1 team, 2 buzzers)
Penn State (1 team, 2 buzzers, 1 staffer)
Princeton (2 teams, 1 buzzer)
Rutgers-Camden (1 team, 0 buzzers)
State College HS (1 team, 1 buzzer)
Ursinus (1 team, 0 buzzers)
UVA (1 team, 1 buzzer)
Total: 12 teams, 14 buzzers, 1 staffer

[pennstateqb]

Fantastic! Penn State would like to bring 1 team and 2 buzzers ($80 fee).

[Lapego1]

Fantastic! Penn State would like to bring 1 team and 2 buzzers ($80 fee).

Please e-mail me at the above address, so I can have contact info for your team.

[Skepticism and Animal Feed]

Since I'm the only member of the Georgetown quizbowl team interested in playing, can I be granted some kind of free agent status to join any other team that might need extra people? I don't have any particular team in mind at this point.

[The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus]

Since I'm the only member of the Georgetown quizbowl team interested in playing, can I be granted some kind of free agent status to join any other team that might need extra people? I don't have any particular team in mind at this point.

We'll see, Bruce, when the field starts to coalesce. As of right now I'm willing to put you in a free agent pool.

[nurgles_herald]

Oh, right, Zydney already posted.

[mpellegrini]

As noted here U. Delaware is planning to send 2-3 teams.

[Lapego1]

Bump. There's about a month to go before this, so hoping to see registrations from some of the usual suspects soon!
EDIT: Also if you've posted here or elsewhere that you plan on coming, please also e-mail pennquizbowl@gmail.com so we can have your contact info and I can get buzzer/staffer info from you.

[The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus]

There appears to be at least some interest in running Mike Bentley's "Eyes that Do Not See II" visual arts tournament at THUNDER. Please post in this thread if you are interested in playing; all of the rooms in which THUNDER will be played have easy projector access, so it should be fairly easy to set up.

[DumbJaques]

I and (at minimum) any Maryland people unfortunate enough to require my car to escape Philadelphia will be present for Eyes.

[Lapego1]

I'm going to need some final numbers on teams VERY soon (like this week) so I can get the proper number of rooms--we may be limited on the number of rooms we can get in one building.

[grapesmoker]

I'm going to need some final numbers on teams VERY soon (like this week) so I can get the proper number of rooms--we may be limited on the number of rooms we can get in one building.

I don't know if you have this already, but I'm playing this with Trevor Davis and Dimitri from CMU.

edit: oh, just saw that you did have this. We'll probably bring one buzzer, unless Trevor says different.

[mpellegrini]

I think at least one Delaware team will be interested in playing Eyes that Do Not See II. I will ask at our meeting this week to confirm and post here afterward.

[BroNi]

Just a heads up. If we can work out transportation to Richmond, VA, we will be going to GSAC instead of this. We will let you know definitively by Monday evening.

[Lapego1]

I'm having to set the cap at 16 teams due to room limitations. Depending on final numbers from some teams, we've reached or are at least very close to this cap. Any additional teams will be added to a waitlist.

[Skepticism and Animal Feed]

Is there room for me on any team?

[Vernon Lee Bad Marriage, Jr.]

You could probably join Rutgers, assuming that's just Nick Clusserath again. Alternatively, you could join our 2-man team or something.

[Nick]

I dont know what the rules are on this but ive discussed it with the entire rutgers-camden team and we'd love to have you join us. Otherwise, yea, it will just be me playing alone.

[Lapego1]

Managed to get two more rooms, so the field cap is now going to be 20. Currently there is room for a few more.

[TheHumanPaperweight]

Do we have a read on what building we're in?

[Lapego1]

Do we have a read on what building we're in?

I changed some info in the first post to reflect both location and parking. Note these changes, as I realized I forgot to change some stuff from last year! I'll send out a confirmation of this info to team representatives this evening.

[zmh204]

Is there any way NYU could get in on this? I sent someone an email but never received a response. Hopefully the forum will work out better.

Much Love,
Zac

[Lapego1]

Is there any way NYU could get in on this? I sent someone an email but never received a response. Hopefully the forum will work out better.

Much Love,
Zac

Try sending said e-mail again to pennquizbowl@gmail.com. There's still room.

[mpellegrini]

Delaware has 6 players for our two teams. So if there are any free agents or half-teams out there, contact me and we can work something out.

Also, none of my teammates want to do Eyes that Do Not See, so it looks like we won't be staying for it after all.

[Lapego1]

Delaware has 6 players for our two teams. So if there are any free agents or half-teams out there, contact me and we can work something out.

Also, none of my teammates want to do Eyes that Do Not See, so it looks like we won't be staying for it after all.

Actually, it'd be great format-wise if your two could join up with a team already out there because we won't be able to field house teams and are still stuck at 17 at the moment.

[mpellegrini]

Actually, it'd be great format-wise if your two could join up with a team already out there because we won't be able to field house teams and are still stuck at 17 at the moment.

I certainly don't object, and I don't think anyone on my team will. Anyone out there want to merge teams?

[Columbia Quiz Bowl]

Hi, this is Josh from Columbia. It's possible we'll only want to send one team. I'll do my best to let you know by the end of today. I wouldn't have brought it up-- Rafael says he had to pester you a lot to get a second team in-- but apparently you have one team too many anyway, so I figured this could solve that problem. It depends on how many people confirm. I think right now we're sending six, possibly seven people, but I'm not too committed to going and at least one of our other guys wasn't either, so we might be able to get it down to four. Again, I'll let you know as soon as I can.

[Columbia Quiz Bowl]

Um, actually, forget about the previous post I guess. I think we're going to bring two teams and I can work this out directly via e-mail, Rafael just sent me all the relevant contact info and such.

(Wait, why does this post just go up whereas the previous one needed to be approved by a moderator? ...never mind. Someone can delete this or whatever.)

[bt_green_warbler]

(Wait, why does this post just go up whereas the previous one needed to be approved by a moderator? ...never mind. Someone can delete this or whatever.)

The first seven posts from new accounts are moderated by the staff to protect the board from spammers.

[Columbia Quiz Bowl]

Uh huh. Well, anyway, we will be sending two teams.

[Lapego1]

Pitt had to drop, so we're at 15 teams now. Would prefer to make that 16 somehow. 14 is kind of sucky as we can really only do two prelim brackets of 7, so there will be byes.

[Columbia Quiz Bowl]

Oh for the love of God. Dan Passner is sick and someone else can't go. So Columbia is down to one team. Sorry, this has all been completely last-minute but there's nothing I can do about it.

[Cheynem]

NOOOOOO! STAY ALIVE DAN!

[Lapego1]

If everyone else stays the way they are for the moment, we're at 14 teams with 12 packets + finals. We'll do two brackets of 7, then top 4 from each advance to an upper bracket and bottom 3 to a lower bracket and play a cross-bracket round robin with prelim games against the teams in your playoff bracket carrying over. This burns 7 + 4 (or 3 for bottom) packets and then we'll have finals as necessary.

EDIT: Also, Eyes That Do Not See will be run afterwards. It'll be $5 per person.

[The Fifth Dimension]

Will there still be byes factored in? I just want to clarify.

[DumbJaques]

Maryland, like Delaware, only has six players for two teams, and I presume Rutgers-Nick is also shorthanded to some degree. Maybe it would be possible to get down to 12 and avoid byes?

[Lapego1]

Maryland, like Delaware, only has six players for two teams, and I presume Rutgers-Nick is also shorthanded to some degree. Maybe it would be possible to get down to 12 and avoid byes?

That would work. I have both of you guys at two teams currently. If we cut those two and have some of you join Nick (and Bruce?) and some Jerry + Trevor (if they're okay with it), I have no problem with it. We'd do a full round robin with 12 teams + finals if necessary (no byes).

And to answer a question upthread, the 14-team format would indeed involve byes.

[mpellegrini]

If we cut those two and have some of you join Nick (and Bruce?) and some Jerry + Trevor (if they're okay with it), I have no problem with it. We'd do a full round robin with 12 teams + finals if necessary (no byes).

No objections here.

[DumbJaques]

Yeah, we'd be fine with that - like I tell our freshmen every day, there's no such thing as too much Bruce.

[Skepticism and Animal Feed]

Yeah, I'll play on the Maryland/Rutgers hybrid team.

[Skepticism and Animal Feed]

So I'm a moron and thought this was next week. Thus, I didn't make travel arrangements until Charles Meigs called me a few minutes ago and asked me if I was playing THUNDER.

Unless a team driving up from DC can pick me up tomorrow morning, I will be unable to make this.

[Pilgrim]

That would work. I have both of you guys at two teams currently. If we cut those two and have some of you join Nick (and Bruce?) and some Jerry + Trevor (if they're okay with it)

This is fine with me personally, but we only have one open slot - As Jerry said upthread, we're playing with Dmitriy from CMU. Also, FWIW, we have two buzzers, not the one that Jerry guessed.

[sidc]

Here are running stats for the tournament

http://results.scobo.net/penn/thunderii

[nurgles_herald]

Not to sound naggy, but I, Cow, definitely got some TUs during Penn State's game against Princeton B. That said, great tournament, lots of fun, and Penn State looks forward to attending the next one! Great work, folks!

[mpellegrini]

I had an exceptionally good time at this tournament. The questions were accessible and the field was competitive. We had three of our matches - against State College, Princeton A, and George Mason - come down to the final question and managed to lose all of them

There were a couple of inexperienced moderators that could use some practice, but otherwise I was very happy with the hosting. I would definitely go back to this tournament in future years.

[TheHumanPaperweight]

Not to sound naggy, but I, Cow, definitely got some TUs during Penn State's game against Princeton B. That said, great tournament, lots of fun, and Penn State looks forward to attending the next one! Great work, folks!

Ha-HA!! We have discovered the cow's true identity!!

[Lapego1]

Since stats don't reflect it, the CMU team beat Maryland in two straight games in the finals to win the tournament. I'll add the stats for those last two rounds in as soon as I can.

[DumbJaques]

I enjoyed this tournament and thought it was solidly run, though there were 1-2 rooms with simply unacceptable moderators. Look, people should not be buzzing in halfway through Norse myth tossups and very reasonably guessing things from Hindu mythology; as a moderator, you should consider this a big red flag. I've actually noticed that almost every Penn tournament, while on the whole filled with competent moderators, has a small handful of atrocious rooms that everyone waits outside of and complains about. I think there are probably enough people in the area that moderators could be recruited to correct this (if we had been told, for instance, there was a moderator shortage, we could have brought one), so I'm hopefully a new strategy might produce the first ever pre-8pm finish for Penn Bowl next month.

This shouldn't give the impression that things went badly or anything - I thought this was a significantly better-administrated tournament than previous years, and that Mehdi and co. did a fine job.

EDIT:

A handful of people hung around to play Eyes that Do Not See, as well. Per Mehdi, here are the stats:

Code: Select all

Paul (2 4 1): 60
Isaac (1 5 16): -15
Chris (9 26 20): 295
Eric (3 14 8): 145
Jerry (5 15 25): 100

[mcgroth]

I enjoyed this tournament and thought it was solidly run, though there were 1-2 rooms with simply unacceptable moderators. Look, people should not be buzzing in halfway through Norse myth tossups and very reasonably guessing things from Hindu mythology; as a moderator, you should consider this a big red flag. I've actually noticed that almost every Penn tournament, while on the whole filled with competent moderators, has a small handful of atrocious rooms that everyone waits outside of and complains about. I think there are probably enough people in the area that moderators could be recruited to correct this (if we had been told, for instance, there was a moderator shortage, we could have brought one), so I'm hopefully a new strategy might produce the first ever pre-8pm finish for Penn Bowl next month.

I agree with Chris's moderator sentiments. I wonder if it would be worth trying to "coach" these moderators, though. Obviously some people are just better moderators than others, but I felt that the biggest issue with some of the moderators here was simply a lack of confidence (in pronunciation and in making rulings on given answers). Confidence is something that everybody can build up if they're willing to do so. In the case of pronunciation, almost everybody has difficulty with pronouncing certain things, just give it your best shot and move on. In the case of making rulings, just make an informed decision and if the team wants to protest your ruling, they can - not a big deal. If some of the more experienced Penn players were to make a point of enforcing confident moderating during practices (both through example and by encouraging it in less experienced moderators), I'd be willing to bet that the overall moderating at future Penn tournaments would noticeably improve.

I really enjoyed this tournament, much like last year. A somewhat undesirable question might have popped up here or there, but overall I was very happy with THUNDER II.