2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

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2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:28 pm

These stats are done. What would people be interested in hearing about?
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:29 pm

NoWayItsTanay wrote:I don't remember if this was in an IS-set or HSNCT, but would it be possible to see the conversion stats for The Garden Party?


Answered in 17 rooms out of 21, which is fine. No one powered it, which means the leadin was likely excessively difficult.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby Susan » Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:41 pm

I'm curious about the conversion of the God of Carnage tossup.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:46 pm

myamphigory wrote:I'm curious about the conversion of the God of Carnage tossup.


1/6/1 in 67 rooms, 4th-worst conversion of the tournament. Should have been a third bonus part.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:48 pm

Overall: 78.5% of tossups answered correctly, 15.7% powered.

Last year: 73.3% correct, 14.9% powered.

This is an improvement even accounting for the absence of computation tossups.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby Down and out in Quintana Roo » Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:04 pm

Last year you listed the (something like) 10 most-widely answered tossups and the 10 least-widely answered tossups of the tournament, and their conversion rates. I thought that was really interesting and spurred good discussion. Do you have those numbers?
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby BRizzle » Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:15 pm

Could you also give some of the most powered and least powered questions? I think it would be very interesting to see what subjects these questions were in.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby Nick » Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:28 pm

Does NAQT have an "ideal" power percentage?
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:33 pm

Carangoides ciliarius wrote:Last year you listed the (something like) 10 most-widely answered tossups and the 10 least-widely answered tossups of the tournament, and their conversion rates. I thought that was really interesting and spurred good discussion. Do you have those numbers?


Last year's thread

Most-converted is not really useful data (a couple dozen tossups tied at 100%; and the difference between 100% and 98% conversion is noise).

Least-converted:

-3
---10% conversion---
God of Carnage
Dorothy Sayers
Robert Lowell
Robert Owen
---20% conversion---
Cleisthenes
Philip Sidney
---25% conversion---
Elbe River
Philip IV of France
---30% conversion---
twin primes
branching
pop
Popish Plot
Bragg's Law
---35% conversion---
Chartres cathedral
Denmark Vesey
Pope Leo X
Athol Fugard
Meissner Effect
Jack Murtha
Kazuo Ishiguro
The Gift Outright
---40% conversion---
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:40 pm

Nick wrote:Does NAQT have an "ideal" power percentage?


Yes. Ideally we would like about 15 to 20 percent of correct buzzes to be for power; recent HSNCTs have done a good job of accomplishing that.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby jonah » Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:48 pm

bt_green_warbler wrote:---30% conversion---
[snip]
pop
What was this question on?
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:04 pm

BRizzle wrote:Could you also give some of the most powered and least powered questions? I think it would be very interesting to see what subjects these questions were in.


First the least-powered. The following 36 tossups were not powered by anyone in the entire tournament:

Robert Owen
Popish Plot
Denmark Vesey
The Gift Outright
WIMPs
coherence
Konrad Adenauer
Richard II of England
Parmigianino
Hebrides
Chattahoochee River
Cougar Town
microphones
dialectic
Sierra Leone
Ted Hughes
antimony
Jane Grey
Phidias
Carson McCullers
Carl Sandburg
associativity
the sewers of Paris
Scandinavia
Bleak House
histamines
emperor of Japan
Philippine Sea
Verona
viruses
Maori
Theseus
William Faulkner
alloys
Indonesia
appendix

Compared to the overall distribution:

history +6%
geography +3
science +2
philosophy +2
gk/mixed +1
mythology +1
theology -1
literature -1
fine arts -1
social science -3
pop culture/sports -5
current events -5

edit: grammar
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:06 pm

jonah wrote:
bt_green_warbler wrote:---30% conversion---
[snip]
pop
What was this question on?


2010 HSNCT round 11 wrote:This operation would be performed twice after encountering an operator when parsing a postfix expression. It would also be performed to obtain the address to which a subroutine should return and to obtain the parameters to that subroutine if they weren't passed through (*) registers. It puts the "F-O" in the acronym "LIFO." For 10 points--name this operation that removes the top element from a stack, the opposite of push.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:25 pm

The following were the 30 tossups powered in at least 20 rooms:

stomata
Book of Exodus
Frankenstein
golden ratio
Muhammad Ali
momentum
The Who
gospels
General Motors
Russia
Yucatan Peninsula
Fall Out Boy
Cherokee language
graffiti
Peyton Manning
Spore
MC Escher
Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Cnidaria
Saturday night
friction
Indira Gandhi
I Am Legend
Bellerophon
Florida Marlins
NIT
recursion
0.5
Pieter Brueghel the Elder
Janie Crawford

Compared to the overall distribution:

pop culture/sports +19%
gk/mixed +6
myth +1
science 0
fine arts 0
current events -1
theology -1
literature -1
philosophy -1
social science -3
geography -3
history -16
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby nobthehobbit » Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:59 pm

bt_green_warbler wrote:Least-converted:

-3
---10% conversion---
[snip]


Is this a typo or an actual tossup (and if so, what was it)?
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby ... and the chaos of Mexican modernity » Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:01 pm

bt_green_warbler wrote:
BRizzle wrote:Could you also give some of the most powered and least powered questions? I think it would be very interesting to see what subjects these questions were in.


First the least-powered. The following 36 tossups were not powered by anyone in the entire tournament:


Richard II of England





edit: grammar


Jeff could you please post the TU on this?
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby t-bar » Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:05 pm

nobthehobbit wrote:
bt_green_warbler wrote:Least-converted:

-3
---10% conversion---
[snip]


Is this a typo or an actual tossup (and if so, what was it)?

It was an actual tossup; if I recall correctly it consisted mostly of describing how the electric field due to a dipole decreases at an inverse-cube rate with respect to distance. In my room, it was negged with +3.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:10 pm

2010 HSNCT round 2 wrote:The Wilton Diptych depicts this ruler kneeling before Mary and Jesus. The Lords Appellant tried to seize power from this ruler, who also saw his power threatened by a rebellion led by Jack Straw and (*) Wat Tyler. Ousted by Henry of Bolingbroke, this king was advised by John of Gaunt and put down the Peasants' Revolt. For 10 points--name this English Plantagenet king who succeeded Edward III.


2010 HSNCT round 4 wrote:A Cotes' spiral results from a central force proportional to this power of the distance. At large distances, tidal forces are proportional to this power of the distance, as are the B fields around a magnetic dipole and the E fields around an electric dipole, because dipoles produce an (*) inverse square potential. For 10 points--give this power that is less than the radial dependence in Coulomb's law.

answer: _-3_ or _r to the -3_ or _inverse cube_ or _inverse cubic_ or _1 over distance cubed_ (accept similar answers; do not prompt on "3" or "distance cubed")
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby something similarly dumb » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:15 pm

What was the tossup on "Saturday night" on? Was it a common link based on pop-culture or what?
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby nadph » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:55 pm

Isaacbh wrote:What was the tossup on "Saturday night" on? Was it a common link based on pop-culture or what?


I think it was mixed impure; there was a clue about Alan Sillitoe's Saturday Night and Sunday Morning, if I recall correctly.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:18 am

2010 HSNCT round 10 wrote:It is when Sidney Poitier and Bill Cosby were "uptown" in a 1974 film, and names the larger part of the story of Arthur, a bike factory worker, in Alan Sillitoe's debut novel. Elton John says this time is "all right for fighting," and it was when (*) Archibald Cox was fired as Watergate special prosecutor in a "massacre." For 10 points--identify this time also naming a 1977 "fever" contracted at a disco by John Travolta.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby Javatron » Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:28 am

Gosh darn. I watched that God of Carnage TU go dead in a game I was watching during a bye. I wish questions about Broadway and plays were a bigger part of the canon.

On a different note, I felt that the difficulty of the tossups were, for the most part, spot-on for the field and the occasion. I do remember getting a little bit tired of the general knowledge questions (I remember two questions about bodies of water, like "the sea" and something else, in the same round), but overall, I thought it was pretty OK.

What were the conversion stats for Dorothy Sayers?
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:41 am

Javatron wrote:What were the conversion stats for Dorothy Sayers?


1/9/2 in 67 rooms (ie, not at all good).
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby Touko Kettunen » Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:01 am

When you're saying x/y/z, does x=10s, y=0s, and z=-5? Or what?
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:03 am

15/10/-5.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby Touko Kettunen » Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:33 am

Oh, I see now. Thanks!
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby Carambola! » Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:47 am

It does seem that material generally less covered in AP European history classes was among the least converted.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby kdroge » Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:37 pm

I think the power percentage for history questions is the most interesting especially with the very few that were powered in at least twenty rooms.

Also, as the author of The Garden Party tossup, I'd say that it was pretty much impossible to power if you hadn't read the story, but almost impossible to not power it if you have; I'm a little surprised that it wasn't powered in any rooms, to be honest.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby Down and out in Quintana Roo » Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:00 pm

What was the Carl Sandburg tossup? For such an important and (i sure thought) well-known writer, for no one to power a tossup on him almost certainly means the leadin and first clues were way too hard.

EDIT: Same goes for Faulkner!
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:26 pm

2010 HSNCT round 8 wrote:Alfred V. Frankenstein edited a volume of folk songs collected by this man called ~Songs of America~, while his posthumously published memoirs were called ~Ever the Winds of Chance~. He won a Grammy for his part in Aaron Copland's (*) ~Lincoln Portrait~, and a Pulitzer for his biography of Abraham Lincoln. For 10 points--name this author whose poems include "Prayers of Steel," "Fog," and "Chicago."


2010 HSNCT round 9 wrote:His output in Hollywood included uncredited work on ~Gunga Din~ and ~Mildred Pierce~, and five films by Howard Hawks, including ~Land of the Pharoahs~. The first film based on one of his own books was 1933's ~The Story of (*) Temple Drake~. The screenplays for ~The Big Sleep~ and ~To Have and Have Not~ were penned by--for 10 points--what Nobel Laureate more famous for works such as ~The Sound and the Fury~?


Note that the latter was mixed (with pop culture), not literature.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby Unicolored Jay » Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:59 pm

The Cnidaria tossup had an extrremely easy leadin that really shouldn't have been there in the first place. It was something like "This phylum contains the world's most poisionous sea animal" or something like that, and anyone could just think of it. (Although, interstingly, we were against TJ when it came up and Olivia? didn't power it until a clue later.)

By the way, what was the Russia tossup on?
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:26 pm

2010 HSNCT round 8 wrote:Since late 2008 in this country automakers GAZ and KAMAZ have announced large layoffs and the collapse in energy prices has hurt natural gas producers Novatek and Lukoil. In the last 20 years the population has dropped by five million, and the need to stabilize the population has led to recent fights with (*) Georgia and Ukraine. Gazprom is a company in--for 10 points--what country with large oil reserves in Siberia?


2010 HSNCT round 12 wrote:The deadliest marine organism to humans is in this phylum; parts of these organisms are capable of reaching accelerations of 40,000 gs. Like sponges, they lack distinct circulatory systems and have two cell layers; unlike sponges and ctenophores, they have namesake (*) cells that can inject venoms into their prey. For 10 points--name this phylum once called Coelenterata that contains the deadly box jellyfish.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby Carambola! » Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:13 am

"Deadliest" is open to discussion as I'm sure that some animals kill more people or have deadlier venom (Blue-Ringed octopus came to mind when I heard the TU); because of this ambiguous leadin I'm sure many people decided to wait.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby nadph » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:35 pm

Could you post the text of the Robert Lowell tossup? If I recall, it namedropped a fairly famous poem while still in power (it might've been "Skunk Hour"). What were its conversion stats?
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:54 pm

nadph wrote:it namedropped a fairly famous poem while still in power (it might've been "Skunk Hour"). What were its conversion stats?


Yes, this mentioned "Skunk Hour" in the power zone:

2010 HSNCT round 12 wrote:While serving as a conscientious objector during World War II, this man wrote his first book, ~Land of Unlikeness~. He wrote of having lost a "summer millionaire" who "seemed to leap from an L. L. Bean catalogue" in a poem written for Elizabeth Bishop, "Skunk Hour," while he wrote of the "old South (*) Boston Aquarium" in another work. For 10 points--name this poet of ~Lord Weary's Castle~ who wrote "For the Union Dead."


No, "Skunk Hour" is not "fairly famous." In 66 rooms: 2/9/1.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby BRizzle » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:03 pm

From Round 3 of the 2010 NSC
2. One order in this phylum, Pennatulacea, bioluminesces upon contact, and its members employ a balancing organ called a statocyst. Contact with some members of this phylum can lead to Irukandji syndrome, with symptoms including tachycardia and vomiting. The parasitic Myxozoams may belong to Protozoa or to this phylum, whose organisms secrete a (*) basement membrane that is separated from the epithelium by mesoglea. Members of this phylum possess venom-containing cells called nematocysts, used to catch prey or as a defense mechanism. For 10 points, name this phylum of invertebrates like hydras, coral, sea anemones, and jellyfish.
ANSWER: Cnidarians

2010 HSNCT round 12 wrote:
The deadliest marine organism to humans is in this phylum; parts of these organisms are capable of reaching accelerations of 40,000 gs. Like sponges, they lack distinct circulatory systems and have two cell layers; unlike sponges and ctenophores, they have namesake (*) cells that can inject venoms into their prey. For 10 points--name this phylum once called Coelenterata that contains the deadly box jellyfish.

I'm pretty sure the first tossup does a much better job of differentiating between the best teams in the country. I'm not saying the HSNCT question needs to be longer, but that it should have better clues that don't reward shallow knowledge and/or guessing.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby The Toad to Wigan Pier » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:14 pm

BRizzle wrote:From Round 3 of the 2010 NSC
2. One order in this phylum, Pennatulacea, bioluminesces upon contact, and its members employ a balancing organ called a statocyst. Contact with some members of this phylum can lead to Irukandji syndrome, with symptoms including tachycardia and vomiting. The parasitic Myxozoams may belong to Protozoa or to this phylum, whose organisms secrete a (*) basement membrane that is separated from the epithelium by mesoglea. Members of this phylum possess venom-containing cells called nematocysts, used to catch prey or as a defense mechanism. For 10 points, name this phylum of invertebrates like hydras, coral, sea anemones, and jellyfish.
ANSWER: Cnidarians

I'm not a big fan of that statocyst clue, as statocysts are not unique to cnidarians and are actually quite widespread among invertebrates.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby Tanay » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:22 pm

Can we see the conversion stats for Puig?
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:25 pm

Puig: 1/10/0 in 15 rooms.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby Susan » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:34 pm

The Toad to Wigan Pier wrote:
BRizzle wrote:From Round 3 of the 2010 NSC
2. One order in this phylum, Pennatulacea, bioluminesces upon contact, and its members employ a balancing organ called a statocyst. Contact with some members of this phylum can lead to Irukandji syndrome, with symptoms including tachycardia and vomiting. The parasitic Myxozoams may belong to Protozoa or to this phylum, whose organisms secrete a (*) basement membrane that is separated from the epithelium by mesoglea. Members of this phylum possess venom-containing cells called nematocysts, used to catch prey or as a defense mechanism. For 10 points, name this phylum of invertebrates like hydras, coral, sea anemones, and jellyfish.
ANSWER: Cnidarians

I'm not a big fan of that statocyst clue, as statocysts are not unique to cnidarians and are actually quite widespread among invertebrates.


Seems like the mesoglea clue may be a little bit garbled too (I'm pretty sure the mesoglea is between two layers of epithelia--endoderm and ectoderm--rather than between one of those layers and the basement membrane).
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby Not That Kind of Christian!! » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:09 pm

bt_green_warbler wrote:
nadph wrote:it namedropped a fairly famous poem while still in power (it might've been "Skunk Hour"). What were its conversion stats?


Yes, this mentioned "Skunk Hour" in the power zone:

2010 HSNCT round 12 wrote:While serving as a conscientious objector during World War II, this man wrote his first book, ~Land of Unlikeness~. He wrote of having lost a "summer millionaire" who "seemed to leap from an L. L. Bean catalogue" in a poem written for Elizabeth Bishop, "Skunk Hour," while he wrote of the "old South (*) Boston Aquarium" in another work. For 10 points--name this poet of ~Lord Weary's Castle~ who wrote "For the Union Dead."


No, "Skunk Hour" is not "fairly famous." In 66 rooms: 2/9/1.


I mean, "Skunk Hour" is "fairly famous" in the sense that it's probably his second- or third-most famous poem. Should it be within power in a college tournament? No. Should it be within power in a high school tournament? No, but only in the sense that I don't think Lowell is an appropriate tossup answer line for a high school tournament.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:21 pm

I was just going to say, I don't think Robert Lowell qualifies as "particularly famous" at the high school level, let alone any of his works.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby Vernon Lee Bad Marriage, Jr. » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:20 pm

The Granny wrote:I was just going to say, I don't think Robert Lowell qualifies as "particularly famous" at the high school level, let alone any of his works.


I mean, I think you and Nikhil are getting at the same thing--to write an HSNCT tossup on Robert Lowell, you have to get down to the most famous clues for him pretty quickly, which is kind of a suboptimal situation, not least for conversion.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby gyre and gimble » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:19 pm

What was the tossup on Puig?
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby RyuAqua » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:01 pm

Another question: out of curiosity, is there a way to bring up the tossups that were most frequently negged?
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:02 pm

2010 HSNCT round 19 wrote:In one work, this author described a writer named Larry who assists the wheelchair-bound exile Ramirez, who lives in Greenwich Village. In another novel by this man, works such as ~Blood and Sand~ shape the life of Toto Casals. His best-known work opens with (*) Molina describing a movie about Irena to Valentin, his cellmate. For 10 points--name this author of ~Betrayed by Rita Hayworth~ and ~The Kiss of the Spider Woman~.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:43 pm

RyuAqua wrote:Another question: out of curiosity, is there a way to bring up the tossups that were most frequently negged?


Here's the list of tossups that were negged more than 20 times. The leader was the Denmark Vesey tossup, with 46 negs.

-3
Robert Owen
Elbe River
Denmark Vesey
Pope Leo X
WIMPs
Caprica
Sonora
Jasper Johns
Das Rheingold
Giovanni da Verrazano
Cougar Town
dialectic
Lake Nyasa
antimony
Jane Grey
Akron
lilacs
associativity
the sewers of Paris
Scandinavia
Newfoundland
Belarus
circadian rhythm
Ghana empire
herbicide
Carolina Panthers
atomic nuclei
Darwin's finches
Philippine Sea
Third Crusade
gallbladder
Bolivia
Greenland
d subshell
6
solar flares
oxidation
William Faulkner
lumbar puncture
Tweety Bird
lakes
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby Madagascar Serpent Eagle » Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:30 pm

Would you mind posting the results for Ypres, in round 17, I think? It was still in power after mentioning "Race to the Sea," which I felt was kind of strange.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:04 pm

2010 HSNCT round 17 wrote:Polygon Wood was located just east of this town, where Herbert Plumer began one battle by exploding mines under Messines Ridge. The first battle at this site concluded the Race to the Sea with a defensive action by the British (*) Expeditionary Force, while the second, in 1915, saw the first use of German chemical weapons. For 10 points--name this Belgian town, the site of three large battles during World War I.


3/26/15 in 35 rooms. I think that confirms my belief that the Race to the Sea is harder than the chemical weapons usage in the second battle.
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Re: 2010 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Postby in on these shenanigans » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:08 pm

I gotta know what happened in that Vesey question to elicit that many negs. Post the text, please?
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