Dunbar Academic Fall Tournament (10/24/09) (NSC Qualifier)

[Huang]

Paul Laurence Dunbar High School in Lexington, Kentucky, will be hosting the first Dunbar Academic Fall Tournament on October 24th, 2009. This tournament is a PACE NSC qualifier so the top four teams at this tournament will qualify for nationals since our field will consist of 20 teams. If more teams sign up, more teams will be able to qualify for PACE NSC. If you would like to register for DAFT, just send an email with "DAFT" in the subject line to my email address (it's at the end of the post). If your team would like to just express interest in attending this tournament, please let me know about that also. List how many teams and how many buzzers you will be bringing.


Questions

Each round will consist of 20/20 pyramidal 7 line tossups with three part bonuses

Sample Questions: http://www.hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewto ... 44#p141944


Format

Tossup/bonuses with neg 5’s, no powers, and no bouncebacks

Bracketed round robin format in both the morning and afternoon rounds

We intend to use 5 packets in the morning and 5 packets in the afternoon which should guarantee every team at least 10 rounds


Fee Structure

Base fee: $70 for the first team and $50 dollars for any subsequent teams from the same school.

Buzzers: Each school should bring at least one working buzzer system if possible. Each additional working buzzer system will result in a discount of $5. The number of times a school can qualify for the buzzer discount will equal the number of teams it brings. Each team from a school will have a maximum buzzer discount of $5.

Travel: -$10 for every 200 miles traveled by a team one way according to Google Maps (no rounding up). This means if School X brings 10 teams then all 10 teams will receive the travel discount. We encourage out of state teams, especially those in Ohio, Tennessee, West Virginia, Indiana, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, and Arkansas, to make the trip to Lexington. I know Michigan teams could make the trip to Lexington since I know I’ve seen DCC teams at Russell tournaments.


Mirrors

Please let me know if you would like to mirror this tournament (email below). Regions with blanks obviously indicate the lack of a mirror so far. We’re open to multiple mirrors in various regions as long as they’re not in close proximity. Mirror fees will be $10 per team attending a mirror. Questions will be ready for use by October 1st. Mirrors with questions marks are in various stages of being officially confirmed.

Northwest


West


Southwest


Midwest
Liberty in Kansas City, Missouri (October 31st, 2009)
Loyola Academy in Chicago, Illinois (October 17th, 2009)

North


New England
Bergen County Academy in Hackensack, New Jersey (December 5th, 2009)

Mid-Atlantic
Thomas Jefferson in Fairfax, Virginia (October 17th, 2009)

Florida



Field - 19 teams and 13 buzzers (Dunbar has 3 working buzzers)

Danville Bate (2) - 1 buzzer - $120 fee
Detroit Catholic Central (2) - 2 buzzers - $90 fee
Grayson County (3) - 1 buzzer - $170 fee
Madisonville North Hopkins (1) - 2 buzzers - $65 fee
Paintsville (3) - 1 buzzer - $120 fee
Pike County Central (2) - 1 buzzer - $120 fee
Portland (1) - 1 buzzer - $60 fee
Woodford County (5) - 1 buzzer - $270 fee


Any questions regarding DAFT?
TD contact below



Edit 1:
I'm an idiot. If you would like to register for DAFT, just send an email with "DAFT" in the subject line to my email address. List how many teams and how many buzzers you will be bringing. (I'll copy paste this part to the top of the post)

Edit 2:
Mirror fees will be $10 per team attending a mirror (I'll copy paste this part to the "Mirror" section of the announcement)

Edit 3:
I've been notified by Fred Morlan that this tournament is now a PACE NSC qualifier. (Copied and pasted to the top of the post)

[Frater Taciturnus]

Buzzers: Each school must bring at least one working buzzer system.

so,I know that most of the time I was in high school my team didn't have a working buzzer. And I really don't think that is an isolated phenomenon. I really don't think it is fair to tell teams that don't have working buzzers that they cannot play a tournament.


Also, what size font are these 7 line tossups of which you speak?

[Huang]

Buzzers: Each school must bring at least one working buzzer system.

so,I know that most of the time I was in high school my team didn't have a working buzzer. And I really don't think that is an isolated phenomenon. I really don't think it is fair to tell teams that don't have working buzzers that they cannot play a tournament.

Ah yes, I forgot to mention this. If schools really don't have a working buzzer system, that's perfectly fine. Otherwise, schools should bring at least one working buzzer.

Also, what size font are these 7 line tossups of which you speak?

Times New Roman 12 point font

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

Also, what size font are these 7 line tossups of which you speak?

Times New Roman 12 point font

That's really long (longer than i think you think). I hope you're prepared for 45-minute-long matches!

[Matt Weiner]

That's really long (longer than i think you think). I hope you're prepared for 45-minute-long matches!

No, that's not very long at all, and many people can read matches of that length in 30 minutes comfortably or far less time if they hustle. Why encourage people to be defeatist about keeping their tournaments on time?

[Huang]

That's really long (longer than i think you think). I hope you're prepared for 45-minute-long matches!

Well it would meet ACF Fall's TNR 10 point font hard line cap of 6 lines. I believe NSC uses a TNR 12 point font hard line cap of 7 lines.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

That's really long (longer than i think you think). I hope you're prepared for 45-minute-long matches!

No, that's not very long at all, and many people can read matches of that length in 30 minutes comfortably or far less time if they hustle. Why encourage people to be defeatist about keeping their tournaments on time?

Not defeatist, it's just a warning. Believe me, i read Prison Bowl questions this year to mediocre teams who would buzz in after (and only after) the giveaway every single time. Those rounds took 40-45 minutes, especially with the extremely long bonus clues too.

[Huang]

That's really long (longer than i think you think). I hope you're prepared for 45-minute-long matches!

No, that's not very long at all, and many people can read matches of that length in 30 minutes comfortably or far less time if they hustle. Why encourage people to be defeatist about keeping their tournaments on time?

Not defeatist, it's just a warning. Believe me, i read Prison Bowl questions this year to mediocre teams who would buzz in after (and only after) the giveaway every single time. Those rounds took 40-45 minutes, especially with the extremely long bonus clues too.

Prison Bowl used TNR 10 point font. That's a big difference I believe.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

That's really long (longer than i think you think). I hope you're prepared for 45-minute-long matches!

No, that's not very long at all, and many people can read matches of that length in 30 minutes comfortably or far less time if they hustle. Why encourage people to be defeatist about keeping their tournaments on time?

Not defeatist, it's just a warning. Believe me, i read Prison Bowl questions this year to mediocre teams who would buzz in after (and only after) the giveaway every single time. Those rounds took 40-45 minutes, especially with the extremely long bonus clues too.

Prison Bowl used TNR 10 point font. That's a big difference I believe.

Point taken (kinda), but my initial point remains (kinda) that these are still pretty long. Between hypothetical City High C and Rural High B you're going to have some long long rounds. If you should focus on one thing, it's keeping the bonus clue length short. That it what really lengthened the matches from those sorts of packets i read this year. Nonetheless i'm not trying to be critical for the sake of being critical, i really want to see good quizbowl thrive in a place like Kentucky and i just don't want to have you have lots of complaints of tired players or people who want to leave at lunchtime since it might already be 1pm if you're not timely.

[Huang]

Point taken (kinda), but my initial point remains (kinda) that these are still pretty long. Between hypothetical City High C and Rural High B you're going to have some long long rounds. If you should focus on one thing, it's keeping the bonus clue length short. That it what really lengthened the matches from those sorts of packets i read this year. Nonetheless i'm not trying to be critical for the sake of being critical, i really want to see good quizbowl thrive in a place like Kentucky and i just don't want to have you have lots of complaints of tired players or people who want to leave at lunchtime since it might already be 1pm if you're not timely.

Hopefully that doesn't happen. We tried the bracketed round robin format of 5 rounds in the morning and 5 rounds in the afternoon for our NAQT spring tournament last year. It worked out fine and we finished 10 rounds around 3:30 PMish even with a pizza delivery delay. That's when one of the player's parents had a seizure and we had to call 911 for help. Everyone agreed to skip doing a final since the two tied teams were pretty rattled and we just ranked teams by PPG (this year we'll be using PP20TUH). I think the lower brackets actually did do some sort of final placement match (they were locked in a room playing and unaware of what had occurred). We finished by around 4:30ish. So if anything, this tournament could go to around 6ish in the worst case scenario. Also none of the teams left after lunch cause they were too tired or anything silly like that.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

Also none of the teams left after lunch cause they were too tired or anything silly like that.

I've seen it happen at 25-50% of the tournaments we go to here.

[Huang]

Also none of the teams left after lunch cause they were too tired or anything silly like that.

I've seen it happen at 25-50% of the tournaments we go to here.

From what I know talking to Dunbar alums (as far back as the class of 2003), this has never happened in the 10+ years we've been hosting tournaments.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

Lucky you! You must have lots more schools that actually like playing 10 matches a day. I wish my state shared that enthusiasm.

Anyway, another point i was hoping to make but kept forgetting is that i bet these questions will be quite good, so us playing on a mirror of them would rock. We'll look into it if we can find one within a couple hours.

[GymnogypsCalifornianusWKU]

I can attest to the fact that even with a team showing up very late, a slight lunch delay, and a medical emergency; Dunbar's tournament this past year was run very well and was received nicely by the teams that attended. We had enough time to go out and eat a nice meal at a Mexican restaurant after the tourney, had a nearly 3 hour ride home, and still got home at a reasonable time. If they run this year's event as well as last years, time won't be a problem even for teams who are a good deal away.

Dunbar has a big program with plenty of people who know what they're doing, and I expect them to have plenty of moderators able to read 20 seven line questions in a timely manner. Also, KY teams are used to Governor's Cup and league games that use an absurd amount of questions (100 one liners doesn't take too long, but 100 four liners makes for very unhappy quizbowlers) and last longer than half an hour when including all the inquiries, timeouts, and other constant delays.

[Scott]

Grayson will be taking one team, maybe two (depending upon interest.)
I am looking forward to playing on high quality (compared to NAQT) pyramidal questions.

[Charbroil]

I might see if my old high school (Francis Howell Central in St. Charles, MO outside of St. Louis) is interested in mirroring this as well. We're on the other side of Missouri as Liberty (in Kansas City, btw), so there shouldn't be much overlap, nor should there be any issues with us and Loyola. However, I'll have to talk to the new coach at FHC about it after school starts, so when do you need word as to whether we'd officially be interested?

[Huang]

I might see if my old high school (Francis Howell Central in St. Charles, MO outside of St. Louis) is interested in mirroring this as well. We're on the other side of Missouri as Liberty (in Kansas City, btw), so there shouldn't be much overlap, nor should there be any issues with us and Loyola. However, I'll have to talk to the new coach at FHC about it after school starts, so when do you need word as to whether we'd officially be interested?

Anytime would be fine probably

[Huang]

Mirror Update - 4 official mirrors and 1 pending mirror

West
Caltech in Pasadena, California (October 24th, 2009)

Southwest
LASA in Austin, Texas (October 10th, 2009)

Midwest
Francis Howell Central in St. Charles, Missouri (?)
Liberty in Kansas City, Missouri (October 31st, 2009)
Loyola Academy in Chicago, Illinois (October 17th, 2009)


Field Update - 8 teams

Danville (?)
Danville Bate (1)
Farragut (2)
Grayson County (2)
Johnson Central (?)
Madisonville North Hopkins (?)
Pikeville (2)
Portland (1)
Woodford County (?)


If any Northwestern, Northern, New England, Mid-Atlantic, and/or Florida schools would like to mirror this tournament, feel free to send me an email at huang[DOT]sundi[AT]gmail[DOT]com. Remember the mirror fee for this set is only $10 per team compared to the cost of purchasing a HSAPQ set for $16 per team or a NAQT set for $18 per team.

I'm aware many schools can't officially decide right now if they can or cannot attend a tournament. Our field currently consists of only Kentucky and Tennessee teams so far. I'll remind teams that there will not be a mirror of this tournament anywhere else in the Southeast. Dunbar travels annually to tournaments in Georgia and South Carolina so it only seems fair for other teams in the Southeast to make the same trip. If teams are interested in playing a good mACF formatted tournament (2010 PACE NSC will also be using such a format) instead of an archaic four-quarters formatted tournament, I highly suggest for such teams to register for this tournament.

We're also currently seeking PACE NSC affiliation for this tournament so the top teams at this tournament can qualify for nationals.

[Charbroil]

Hey, how many packets are you going to set aside for use in breaking ties at the end? If you set aside two packets in case you need to do an mACF advantaged final for two teams with 1 game's difference in record, won't that limit you to 4 team brackets in the playoffs? Or are you going to just break ties by PPG and/or award the tournament title to the team with the best record, regardless of whether it clears the field or not?

[Huang]

Hey, how many packets are you going to set aside for use in breaking ties at the end? If you set aside two packets in case you need to do an mACF advantaged final for two teams with 1 game's difference in record, won't that limit you to 4 team brackets in the playoffs? Or are you going to just break ties by PPG and/or award the tournament title to the team with the best record, regardless of whether it clears the field or not?

We're dividing the last two packets into four half packets if that's the case


Edit 1: Clarification
"mACF advantaged final for two teams with 1 game's difference in record" - This will only need two packets. Advantaged team needs only one win. Disadvantaged team needs two wins.

Edit 2: Additionally, I'm not familiar with an "mACF advantaged final". The advantaged final we will be using is what I've outlined in my first edit. If that's a horrible way of going about doing things, let me know.

[at your pleasure]

What you described is, in fact, the mACF advantaged finals format. Anyhow, you should be fine for packets if you make sure to write more than you expect to need so you have some to burn in case of emergency.
To chip in on the delays, most of the ones I've been in involved people showing up late, people coming back from lunch late, or breaking circles of death.

[Scott]

Is it possible that Grayson could receive a copy of the packets after the tournament has concluded?
We are looking forward to attending.

[Huang]

Is it possible that Grayson could receive a copy of the packets after the tournament has concluded?
We are looking forward to attending.

They will presumably be emailed to Chris Carter for online archiving after all mirrors are done

[Scott]

Okay, that sounds good.

[Huang]

Mirror Update - 5 official mirrors

West
Caltech in Pasadena, California (October 24th, 2009)

Southwest
LASA in Austin, Texas (November 14th, 2009)

Midwest
Liberty in Kansas City, Missouri (October 31st, 2009)
Loyola Academy in Chicago, Illinois (October 17th, 2009)

New England
Bergen County in Hackensack, New Jersey (October 31st, 2009)


Field Update - 7 teams

Ballard (?)
Danville (?)
Detroit Catholic Central (?)
duPont Manual (?)
Farragut (2)
Grayson County (2)
Johnson Central (?)
Madisonville North Hopkins (?)
Paintsville (2)
Portland (1)
Woodford County (?)

[Charbroil]

Hey, I talked to the new coach at Francis Howell Central and she says she's probably not ready to run a tournament yet, so could you strike us from the mirror list? Thanks.

[Huang]

This tournament is now a PACE NSC qualifier so the top two teams at this tournament will qualify for nationals since our field currently consists of less than 20 teams. If more teams sign up, more teams will be able to qualify for PACE NSC. We hope this further incentivizes teams in the South to make the trip up to Lexington.

[Huang]

Everyone attending this tournament or a mirror of this tournament should be happy to know that the packets are now undergoing heavy playtesting and editing.

[David Riley]

Are our mirrors also NSC qualifiers?

[Huang]

Are our mirrors also NSC qualifiers?

Fred should have sent an email about it. I think he sent emails for all the mirrors that were already announced in the forum.

[David Riley]

Okay, I haven't received it yet. Fred?

[Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon]

Are our mirrors also NSC qualifiers?

They're certainly eligible to be, but I hadn't seen announcements for either the Bergen County or Loyola tournaments yet. I'll add these to my list.

[David Riley]

Thanks Fred, I'll post in the regular announcements forum later this weekend.

[Huang]

This tournament is one month away..


Field - 9 teams

Ballard (?)
Danville (2)
Detroit Catholic Central (?)
duPont Manual (?)
Farragut (2)
Grayson County (2)
Johnson Central (?)
Madisonville North Hopkins (?)
Paintsville (2)
Portland (1)
Woodford County (?)


I'm a bit disappointed our tournament doesn't even have a field of double digits despite sending out multiple emails to all Kentucky schools and a few out of state school contacts we happened to have. Any ideas on how to expand this field? Our spring tournament usually gets 20ish teams.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

There's still a lot of time left. Many schools have barely started having meetings with their teams, and many teams are reluctant for going to tournaments early in the year (October is still early for many places) if they feel like they're "not ready."

It wasn't long ago, as well, that CR didn't go to a single tournament until December.

Be patient, teams will come around.

[David Riley]

I concur....for my tournament, several are multiple teams from a school and many of these were not confirmed until recently.

[GymnogypsCalifornianusWKU]

Hmm, Grayson Co. and Madisonville are the only schools from the western half of Kentucky attending the tourney. I think I'm gonna encourage the GC kids to kinda spread the word whenever they play some of the other teams in the area.

[Huang]

Hmm, Grayson Co. and Madisonville are the only schools from the western half of Kentucky attending the tourney. I think I'm gonna encourage the GC kids to kinda spread the word whenever they play some of the other teams in the area.

Nick: That's awesome. I will greatly appreciate the effort.

[Scott]

I will mention it to Owensboro and Apollo when I see them.
They are both pretty competitive this year.

[Inkana7]

What's the deadline to register for this tournament? We're semi-interested, but many things have to be worked out.

[Huang]

I will mention it to Owensboro and Apollo when I see them.
They are both pretty competitive this year.

Nice

What's the deadline to register for this tournament? We're semi-interested, but many things have to be worked out.

There's really no deadline for registration. Although once we reach a good even number of teams the week leading up, we'll tentatively cut off registration.

[Huang]

Field - 14 teams

Danville Bate (2)
Detroit Catholic Central (?)
duPont Manual (?)
Grayson County (2)
Johnson Central (2)
Madisonville North Hopkins (?)
Paintsville (2)
Portland (1)
South Range (?)
Woodford County (5)


Props to Woodford County for signing up 5 teams.

[Scott]

Glad to see Woodford becoming a part of the Kentucky quizbowl scene.
I hope the field will continue to grow and draw in several more competitive teams.

I am interested in seeing how us and Danville fare against each other.
We should be at pretty similar level this year.

[Faiyad]

Yo Sandy, I am pretty sure Johnson Central will also be coming.
Not sure how many teams though, two perhaps?

[maged]

Ballard will not be able to attend this tournament due to a Jefferson County Quick Recall Tournament and the ACT

[Scott]

That is disappointing to hear.
I guess we will have to wait until the spring to play you all then.

[Huang]

Yo Sandy, I am pretty sure Johnson Central will also be coming.
Not sure how many teams though, two perhaps?

Awesome Faiyad. I'll put you guys down for two then. I'll be sure to update it if anything changes.

Edit: By the way, what's your coach's email address?

[Andrew from jc]

Try this: Brenda.Porter@johnson.kyschools.us

[Scott]

Not to sound overly interrogative, but do any of you Johnson Central people know how Paintsville is this year?

[Faiyad]

Not to sound overly interrogative, but do any of you Johnson Central people know how Paintsville is this year?

The JV team beat ours.
But they weren't very strong at Ezell-Harding.