The quizbowl decades project

Tell your tales of bygone days and rank historical things here.

The quizbowl decades project

Postby Matt Weiner » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:19 pm

In a scant seven weeks from now, the tens digit in the year will change, and you know what that means: endless features in every facet of pop culture about the best and worst things of the decade we are now leaving. Who am I to swim against the current? I'll be inviting some other people with long involvements/memories to start a regular feature on historical things you should know about high school and collegiate quizbowl, that will run on both the frontpage of the site and here on the board. Since YOU have demanded it, there will also be all sorts of pointless Top 10 lists of the best teams of the decade and things like that.

Expect the first feature by the end of this week, and use this thread for suggestions and comments. I have mirrored the thread in the high school zone through the power of Internet magic, since this initiative will include both levels.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Dr. Loki Skylizard, Thoracic Surgeon » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:29 pm

I enjoy lists of things!
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Charbroil » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:57 pm

Somewhat related to this idea, is the Quiz Bowl history project still going on?
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby aestheteboy » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:56 pm

I haven't played quizbowl for very long, but I can say with some confidence that games and players from my era of quizbowl would rank high on "The most exciting HS quizbowl matches ever" (TJ's 10 negs in 2005, Whitman's Whistler bonus, Ben's exciting Heaney buzz, and Henry with his Zardari all came immediately to my mind) and the "The most dominant HS sophomores ever." And probably the best HS teams and the best HS players ever, too, but that's another story.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby at your pleasure » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:24 pm

Charbroil wrote:Somewhat related to this idea, is the Quiz Bowl history project still going on?

It's kind of moribund-prehaps it would be better to interview coaches.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby marnold » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:52 pm

For a while I've been wondering what quizbowl's truly unbreakable records are: things like Subash's 74 powers at that one ICT, Chicago A winning 15 tournaments in a year in 1999 (which I suppose isn't even part of this decade), and the like.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby theMoMA » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:13 pm

15 tournaments seems eminently doable, if a great team really cared enough to play the same roster all the time (I don't know if Chicago did this back in the day, or if this is part of your requirement for winning tournaments as the "same team").
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby marnold » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:38 pm

I count 18 academic tournaments having happened last year - even if I missed a few random IS-sets or something and there were 20, it seems ridiculously hard to me to win 16 of those. Like, that count includes novice events that a the amazing A team probably wouldn't play, open tournaments where a regular college team has an even harder time of winning, and two national championships where uniting titles is fairly rare (5 times out of 13). Maybe my instinct is different from others, but it seems the odds of having a team that plays that frequently, is that consistent and - most importantly - is untouchably dominant are vanishingly small.

But maybe you're right - still, surely there's more than one feat that's been made impossible by the changes of the last decade.

EDITs: stuff. and what Susan said!
Last edited by marnold on Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Susan » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:39 pm

theMoMA wrote:15 tournaments seems eminently doable, if a great team really cared enough to play the same roster all the time (I don't know if Chicago did this back in the day, or if this is part of your requirement for winning tournaments as the "same team").


"Eminently doable" seems a bit strong; in 1999, there were only two weekends in Chicago's tournament season in which they did not place first at a tournament (the NAQT conference tournament, at which they placed third, and Maryland's DSHIT, which was a novice tournament not attended by any A-team people, at which they placed fourth). On three weekends (Gateway/T-Party, MLK/MLK, and Penn Bowl/Elvis), they sent teams to two tournaments; in each of those weekends, the A team won the tournament they played, and the team at the other site placed second at their tournament. The only other non-first-place finish that season for Chicago was the D2 team's second-place finish at ICT (where the D1 team placed first). I can't say this strikes me as "eminently doable"; certainly such a season has not been repeated since. FWIW, those wins were not the same roster playing all the time--for example, the lineups for the three national titles were Sarah Bagby/Alice Chou/Andrew Yaphe/Mike Zarren (NAQT), Jeff Bennett/Chou/Matt Gealy/Zarren/Chris Zimpleman (CBI), and Bennett/Bagby/Gealy/Ryan Scranton/Yaphe (ACF).
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby scquizbowl » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:24 pm

Since I've been playing games most of this decade (my first real tournament was way back in 2003), I know the Southern scene very well.

We should have a list of the best games of the decade in quiz bowl. James Island beating Dorman in NAQT state (also, the game against Southside last year) would have to be up there. That great game last year for the championship between Dorman and Wilmington Charter. Many tournaments that have gone to the last couple of questions. You could have fifteen games up there.

It's been a big several years for quiz bowl in the South. When I started, almost all tournaments did four quarter format with worksheets (usually 15 questions). Now, most tournaments are pyramidal except for a few. Dorman has graduated and reloaded four times, and amazingly, have gotten better each time. Chattahoochee, which was once a small footnote in quiz bowl, has become one of the top teams in the nation.

Southside (by beating us), Raleigh Charter, and Hoover have come out of nowhere to become leaders in their states. Coaches have retired, and some teams have gone down (I remember when Heritage was a big name in quiz bowl, just a couple of years ago).

Last year, James Island's worst finish at a tournament was 4th place (and we went to like 15 tournaments). However, from what I've read on this board, I have to say the best team this decade was '05 Thomas Jefferson. They could probably beat all but the best college teams.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby The King's Flight to the Scots » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:46 pm

scquizbowl wrote:Southside (by beating us), Raleigh Charter, and Hoover have come out of nowhere to become leaders in their states. Coaches have retired, and some teams have gone down (I remember when Heritage was a big name in quiz bowl, just a couple of years ago).


A "teams coming out of nowhere" list would certainly be interesting. St. Anselm's hasn't really done anything yet, so I wouldn't put us up there. Teams like Hunter, Stow-Munroe Falls, James Monroe, and Whitman (!) deserve some cred, though.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:03 pm

I remember Matt telling us about his list of top 5 games played; it would be kind of cool to hear what other dinosaurs thought their top 5 games were, both playing and seeing.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby JackGlerum » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:14 pm

scquizbowl wrote:'05 Thomas Jefferson

Is there an account of this team? If not, could someone give it? Besides "they hated each other" and "they were good", I don't know much about this seemingly (for a Chicago person) mythical team.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby ieppler » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:19 pm

Journey to the Planets wrote:
scquizbowl wrote:Southside (by beating us), Raleigh Charter, and Hoover have come out of nowhere to become leaders in their states. Coaches have retired, and some teams have gone down (I remember when Heritage was a big name in quiz bowl, just a couple of years ago).


A "teams coming out of nowhere" list would certainly be interesting. St. Anselm's hasn't really done anything yet, so I wouldn't put us up there. Teams like Hunter, Stow-Munroe Falls, James Monroe, and Whitman (!) deserve some cred, though.


No love for the Kinkaid/Klitzman-era Whitman team? If nothing else, it, along with Chris Ray's RM and the Joutz/Price/Newman WJ team, produced some of the most amusing anecdotes to come out of high school quizbowl.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby AlphaQuizBowler » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:26 pm

I think it would be neat to do a "top 4 players of each graduating class" for the decade.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:33 pm

Perhaps there could be best ofs by region, done right before the overall best of, at least for high school where there is a larger pool. Something like Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, Southeast, Midwest, California, Texas/Oklahoma/the West.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Captain Sinico » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:33 pm

My favorite games I ever played:

5. J.p. Lien, Adam Malamen, Nick Rothfuss and I beat Texas A&M at ICT 2002 on my last-second atolls buzz, the score having been tied on the previous question.
4. Andrew "Icy Efficiency" Ullsperger, Sudheer, and I lose to Subash, Yaphe, and backup by only 5 at ACF Regionals 2004 when I fuck up a single geography bonus part on the Yukon river after we get the last tossup. We somehow led through most of the game.
3. Trygve, Greg Baboukis, Jeff Crean and I win the first game over and narrowly lose the second game to Chicago at the finals of ICT 2009, having narrowly lost to Chicago and previously beaten Harvard in a play-in game.
2. Zeke, Ullsperger, Matt Weiner and I defeat Yaphe, Kemezis, Teitler, and Matthews in two games at CO 2005. Subash himself praised these game as "what quizbowl's all about" or something along those lines.
1. Steven Canning, Micah Hodosh, Kelly Tourdot and I win the first game over and narrowly lose the second game to Chicago at the finals of ICT 2007, having lost to them in the playoff bracket by the margin of a broken buzzer. Being down 45 going into the last question (damn you, Captain Littlepage!), I buzz right around the power mark with "bonding molecular orbitals" for "anti-bonding molecular orbitals." The corresponding bonus was on U.S.-Native American treaties (I think they were Fort Stanwix, New Echota, and Payne's Landing) which I'd just studied the hell out of and would have 30'd easily.

MaS

EDITS: Fixed years, composition of teams. Sorry; I'm sick as hell and can't recall things very well at the moment.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby MicroEStudent » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:54 pm

I don't know if there's much significance out of mid 2000's Rochester region quiz bowl played on CBI questions. I did watch a few matches come down to tossups on trivial things like "green", "types of apples" and "mountain time zone". I also remember watching a varsity match end 40-0. Ugliest game of quiz bowl I've ever seen.

And if other people want to countdown their 5 favorite matches:

5: 2004 HS Playoffs, we were down 140 at the half, we come back to win by 10 thanks to the clock ending early in a bonus.
4: 2009 DII SCT at Pitt, we were down 5 after bonus 23 and we call a time out with less than a second on the clock to preserve the final TU against Mount St. Mary's. My teammate Jon answers TU 24 for the win.
3: 2009 DII SCT again, this time against Cornell. Score tied going into TU 24. Cornell got it, but it was a buzzer race.
2: 2005 CBI Regionals: First match of the day, we end up tied against Syracuse after a clock killing neg doesn't run out the clock. I get the tiebreaker "bona fide".
1: 2004 HS Playoffs, our team and our rivals swap the lead on every TU/Bonus cycle for a total of 22 times until I somehow got "Sean Connery" solely on a clue relating to his hand and foot prints outside Mann's Chinese Theatre to preserve a 280-260 win.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:15 am

Captain Sinico wrote:2. Zeke, Ullsperger, Matt Weiner and I defeat Yaphe, Hoppes, Teitler, and Matthews in two games at CO 2005. Subash himself praised these game as "what quizbowl's all about" or something along those lines.


I didn't play 2005 CO; the history specialist on that team was Adam Kemezis.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby grapesmoker » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:32 am

Captain Sinico wrote:1. Steven Canning, Micah Hodosh, Kelly Tourdot and I win the first game over and narrowly lose the second game to Chicago at the finals of ICT 2006, having lost to them in the playoff bracket by the margin of a broken buzzer. Being down 45 going into the last question (damn you, Captain Littlepage!), I buzz right around the power mark with "bonding molecular orbitals" for "anti-bonding molecular orbitals." The corresponding bonus was on U.S.-Native American treaties (I think they were Fort Stanwix, New Echota, and Payne's Landing) which I'd just studied the hell out of and would have 30'd easily.


That can't be right because the finals in 2006 were between Illinois and Berkeley and as I recall Berkeley was undefeated going into the final.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby dtaylor4 » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:40 am

grapesmoker wrote:
Captain Sinico wrote:1. Steven Canning, Micah Hodosh, Kelly Tourdot and I win the first game over and narrowly lose the second game to Chicago at the finals of ICT 2006, having lost to them in the playoff bracket by the margin of a broken buzzer. Being down 45 going into the last question (damn you, Captain Littlepage!), I buzz right around the power mark with "bonding molecular orbitals" for "anti-bonding molecular orbitals." The corresponding bonus was on U.S.-Native American treaties (I think they were Fort Stanwix, New Echota, and Payne's Landing) which I'd just studied the hell out of and would have 30'd easily.


That can't be right because the finals in 2006 were between Illinois and Berkeley and as I recall Berkeley was undefeated going into the final.


This was the 2007 final at Minnesota.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Nick » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:21 am

For a mix of curiosity and vanity, perhaps a "Top 10 teams to never win a championship."
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Joe Romersa » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:04 am

Can Dwight Wynne or Charles Meigs post a "Top Ten (Southern) California QB moments"?

Possible entries for such a list could include Basileus and the Santa Monica smoking incident?
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Kyle » Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:42 am

al3xWal3x wrote:Can Dwight Wynne or Charles Meigs post a "Top Ten (Southern) California QB moments"?

Possible entries for such a list could include Basileus and the Santa Monica smoking incident?


My favorite *northern* California quizbowl moment was when I lost to the cat. It was Lakeside's first tournament ever, the Stanford Junior Cardinal Classic 2004, an A-level tournament. We did really well before lunch, including a win over Mission San Jose, who soon became our arch-rivals. After lunch, we lost one game, but eked out an overtime win over MSJ. It all came down to the last game of the playoff bracket, which (because prelim results didn't count) would determine whether we tied MSJ and would have a one-game final. We were playing Half Moon Bay, a decent team, but not by any means the best in the tournament. We opened up a 100-plus-point lead in the first half. Then Half Moon Bay made a substitution. The girl they substituted out was wearing cat ears. Over the course of the next half, while everybody on my team stared at her, she proceeded to draw a nose and whiskers on herself, then begin meowing and licking her hands. Distracted, we lost our 100-point lead and with it the tournament.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Mettius Fufetius » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:00 am

I haven't been part of too many memorable games. But one does stick out: round 7 of CaTo/TaCo (I was playing with York Chen, Zihan Zheng and Carsten Gehring, against Guy Tabachnick, Chris White, Evan Silberman and Mike Cheyne.) Guy got a sick buzz on the Phrygians off some deep-ass Herodotus knowledge, but I had pretty good buzzes on Great Zimbabwe, Pamuk, and New Sweden, and picked up Northrop Frye. The game was tied after 20 -- unfortunately, the packet consisted of only 20/19 questions, as did round 8, so we just agreed on a tie and left.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Matt Weiner » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:32 am

So here's the suggested list of topics so far:

Your Top 5 Most Memorable Games
Top Ten Southern California QB moments
Top 10 teams to never win a championship
Best high school teams by region
Top 4 players of each graduating class
Teams coming out of nowhere
Best games of the decade
The most exciting HS quizbowl matches ever
Unbreakable records

Keep the ideas coming, and if you want to contribute a list or a story yourself, just post it here and I'll snip the good ones for the front page. I'll be kicking things off by transplanting the only post on the abortive Qbhistory blog over here.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Quantum Mushroom Billiard Hat » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:14 am

Some of the most memorable games I've seen:
First, the 2008 HS NCT game between East Lansing (Kurtis) and Eden Prairie in the playoffs, with winner reaching top 6. Eden Prairie got a huge lead, but Kurtis got a bunch of stuff in the second half and EL won. I think Gautam was there too; was it still fun to watch from the Eden Prairie side of things?
Second, the final at NAQT States last year between Country Day and Catholic Central. I don't remember a large lead for either team, and DCD won on the last tossup.
Also, the game we played against Chicago last year in DII ICT to force a tie for second and let us reach the finals was pretty fun too. I have no idea how the match looked to someone not playing though.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Cheynem » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:27 am

If I recall the game Nathan is talking about, the tie was cinched on a sick buzz by Evan Silberman on "The Crying of Lot 49," and then we managed to 20 the Ayn Rand bonus. Yay, having just read about Anthem!

Just going by last year (the only full year of collegiate quizbowl I've played), there's been a lot of memorable games. The game between Illinois and Harvard to set up the ICT final, the two games against Minnesota and Harvard to determine UG title. The circle of death games at ACF Nats between Brown, Stanford, and Chicago. Last year's Minnesota Open final.

In terms of sheer vanity, I'm not sure anything can beat playing on a team of Frank Firke, Carsten Gehring, and Kent Buxton to upset Chris Ray, Guy Tabachnick, Ike Jose, and Matt Lafer at Chicago Open, fueled by a LOT of negging from those guys, me powering "werewolf," and then frauding knowledge of Donald Duck.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby marnold » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:45 pm

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the 2008 ACF Nats final game as one of the most exciting ever. I'm pretty sure everyone but the 3 Chicago A and 3 Chicago B players were rooting for Brown, and feeling the air go out of the room during that last bonus is about as memorable as it gets for me. I found that way more dramatic and exciting than actually playing during the final two games last year.

Back to the unbreakable records, Seth seemed to think that Jeff Hoppes finished his NAQT playing career by never going to an ICT without coming away with a title, whether overall or undergrad. I'm sure a decent number of people do that with 1 ICT played, but for >2 (let alone 5 or 6 or whatever) that's probably never going to be equaled.

Also, while it may be obvious, a list of the best college teams of the decade would be interesting.

Maybe we could also have some sort of single-elimination bracketed tournament to decide the Worst Program Ever. That would be fun, right?
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby magin » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:04 pm

I'd be interested in a list of the best tournaments of the decade (along with explanations for why they were so good, to give current writers something to strive for).
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Cheynem » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:07 pm

My favorite story from high school (aside from general stuff like upsetting Brookwood at HSNCT and beating Cutter Morning Star to win the first NAQT Small School Title) is this:

It was my sophomore year. We were playing Breckinridge for the state title (at the bad tournament, the one now held at MSU, then held in Port Huron). It was an advantaged final, they had the advantage, we already had won the first game. In the second game, we had jumped out to a huge lead, watched it mostly fritter away, and now were in a dogfight. Breckinridge's coach was a very, very nice man. While I know Breckinridge had a solid program for many years, I don't know if they had ever won a state title. This was their coach's last year (the program would sadly dissolve after he retired). At halftime, he walked up to his team and told a joke that has stuck in my mind all these years, revolving around the pun "Win one for the Flipper." The whole room sort of stopped to listen to him tell it, which he did marvelously. He then said he couldn't watch the second half because of nerves and left. It was like a great TV-movie moment, a perfect monologue for like Jack Lemmon or Richard Dreyfuss to win an Emmy. Of course, we proceeded to shatter him and his team's hopes by winning the game and the state title.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby grapesmoker » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:26 pm

marnold wrote:I'm surprised no one's mentioned the 2008 ACF Nats final game as one of the most exciting ever. I'm pretty sure everyone but the 3 Chicago A and 3 Chicago B players were rooting for Brown, and feeling the air go out of the room during that last bonus is about as memorable as it gets for me. I found that way more dramatic and exciting than actually playing during the final two games last year.


Not that it should stop anyone from talking about it, but I didn't mention it because that game is one of the most painful experiences I've ever had in quizbowl, not least because of several mistakes I made on the bonuses that ended up losing us the game.

An interesting record: I believe that Nick Meyer, formerly of Berkeley, played in every ICT from its inception until 2003. I'm not sure if that's a record for ICT attendance but it might be.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:27 pm

As a corollary to the "teams to come out of nowhere", how about "players who came out of nowhere"?
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby grapesmoker » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:36 pm

The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus wrote:As a corollary to the "teams to come out of nowhere", how about "players who came out of nowhere"?


A little self-interest there, eh?

Let me, by way of this remark, note that a non-insignificant number of great players came out of programs, collegiate and otherwise, that were basically unknown. No one knew who Seth Teitler was outside of the West Coast until he led a team to an ACF Nationals title as a junior. Zeke Berdichevsky, from what I understand, went from being a middling player as an undergrad to the dynamite force we know him as today during grad school. Of course, no one had Eric on their radar either, and in my view he's one of the top-5 players active today. Ryan Westbrook was not a part of quizbowl's general consciousness for a long time either; I didn't really know who he was until he helped Adam take Michigan to within one tossup of an ACF Nats title in 2006. I'm sure there are other examples as well.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Skepticism and Animal Feed » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:11 pm

The only strike against the 2008 ACF Nats final was that it was part of an advantaged final, and even if Jerry and Eric had pulled Pomeranchuk cooling, there's no guarantee that they would have won Game 2.

Then again, I'm sure plenty of people point this out about the Carlton Fisk waving his HR ball fair game or the Bill Buckner game and are promptly ignored.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:11 pm

marnold wrote:Back to the unbreakable records, Seth seemed to think that Jeff Hoppes finished his NAQT playing career by never going to an ICT without coming away with a title, whether overall or undergrad.


This didn't happen. I played the 2003 ICT my first year of grad school (thus no longer undergrad eligible) and made it to the finals. But it was the 2003 ICT: everyone got destroyed by Subash.

Nick Meyer was the last player to have played every ICT; through 2002 he shared that distinction with Maribeth Mason of Caltech, who staffed the 2003 southern California ICT.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby grapesmoker » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:24 pm

Whig's Boson wrote:The only strike against the 2008 ACF Nats final was that it was part of an advantaged final, and even if Jerry and Eric had pulled Pomeranchuk cooling, there's no guarantee that they would have won Game 2.

Then again, I'm sure plenty of people point this out about the Carlton Fisk waving his HR ball fair game or the Bill Buckner game and are promptly ignored.


Of course. Having heard the last packet later, I'd like to think it would have been favorable to us, though I honestly have no idea how Chicago would have done on it. However, the manner of exit makes that game particularly painful. For high-drama finals, the 2006 ACF Nationals final is one of my favorites as well, though I'm sure it's less so for that Michigan people who actually played it.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby aestheteboy » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:35 pm

The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus wrote:As a corollary to the "teams to come out of nowhere", how about "players who came out of nowhere"?

Well, don't all players come out of nowhere, pretty much? I don't know anyone who got a lot of attention before becoming good and scoring a lot of points.
EDIT: If you mean "players who came from states and countries that no one has ever heard of before" that might be a little bit more interesting.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Mike Bentley » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:37 pm

aestheteboy wrote:
The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus wrote:As a corollary to the "teams to come out of nowhere", how about "players who came out of nowhere"?

Well, don't all players come out of nowhere, pretty much? I don't know anyone who got a lot of attention before becoming good and scoring a lot of points.


Maybe "fastest path to greatness" would be a better choice here.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Frater Taciturnus » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:40 pm

aestheteboy wrote:
The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus wrote:As a corollary to the "teams to come out of nowhere", how about "players who came out of nowhere"?

Well, don't all players come out of nowhere, pretty much? I don't know anyone who got a lot of attention before becoming good and scoring a lot of points.
EDIT: If you mean "players who came from states and countries that no one has ever heard of before" that might be a little bit more interesting.


No, see Eric Mukherjee actually materialized at a Brown practice like Doctor Manhattan does in Watchmen, picked up a buzzer, and scored 45 PPG.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Mike Bentley » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:43 pm

Oh yeah, maybe as part of this project I'll put up the 5 best collegiate matches I have recorded.

Some thoughts off the top of my head:
2008 ACF Nats - Brown vs. Chicago A (with certain parties being edited out)
2009 ICT - Harvard A vs. Illinois A
2008 Chicago Open - Magin/Weiner/Jerry/Eric vs. Bentley/Passner/Kwartler/Nagler (not for competitiveness but for the near-grail performance of the Magin team)
2009 Minnesota Open - Magin et al vs. Jerry et al (came down to the last bonus)
2008 Cardinal Classic - Maryland vs. Brown (the entertainment value of ths one is very high)

Of, and I'll probably throw in the Whitman vs. TJ final at the 2008 NSC for good measure.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby 40 characters in search of a username » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:00 pm

Well, I'd certainly be willing to help contribute to Best 5 Players of Each Gradutating year for last year, as I have some pretty good ideas for last year and may be able to help for the year before, I guess.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Mettius Fufetius » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:32 pm

magin wrote:I'd be interested in a list of the best tournaments of the decade (along with explanations for why they were so good, to give current writers something to strive for).


Hey, that's a discussion I was planning to start myself! I'll pick one favorite each for regular and subject tournaments.

2008 FICHTE: Both FICHTE sets were fun to play, but the second incarnation seemed a bit top-heavy with leadins, and there were sometimes barely any useful clues in power. By contrast, the original FICHTE, despite a very short length cap, put an astonishingly finely engineered balance of hard, medium and easy clues in its TUs and rewarded people who knew stuff with powers (my best in practice being the "colorless green ideas sleep furiously" TU). All the questions had fun and interesting -- but almost never stupid or unfair -- clue selection and answer choices. That's something you can also find in tournaments like the most recent HI or MO; but unlike in those sets, very little from 2008 FICHTE seemed magically obscure or not worth knowing about, even in the trash. And just to top things off, it was actually proofread, distributed in PDF format and even had a logo!

Geography Monstrosity: I like geography and think it's a thing worth knowing in academia. But, historically, a lot of geography questions in QB have been dull, trite and uninteresting, to the point that people have claimed they are impossible to write well. I was vaguely inclined to that position before I read the Geography Monstrosity set. I didn't get too many early buzzes on it, but the vast majority of what I learned seemed cool, interesting and (historically/sociologically/ecologically/literarily) important. (The "delicious fudge" found at Mackinac Island may or may not be, but I enjoyed learning about that too!) The set itself had a few misplaced clues and dumb power marks, and I wasn't sure about the notion of having TUs be worth varying amount of points at the end of the question (is that something this tournament invented?) But those are minor points given that this tournament 1) was a joy to read and 2) had a huge and positive impact on the direction of geography in QB.


grapesmoker wrote:An interesting record: I believe that Nick Meyer, formerly of Berkeley, played in every ICT from its inception until 2003. I'm not sure if that's a record for ICT attendance but it might be.

Oh, hey, is that this guy? Man, I didn't know he played quizbowl!

(edit: FORMATTING)
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Cheynem » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:35 pm

Dude, if you've ever had Mackinac Island fudge, you'd know how important it is.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Ukonvasara » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:37 pm

Marchbanks wrote:(is that something this tournament invented?)

Nope. First time I remember seeing that was at the first Experiment, but it's since become a pretty common thing (well, common as far as experimental tournaments go).
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Mechanical Beasts » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:49 pm

Bentley Like Beckham wrote:2009 Minnesota Open - Magin et al vs. Jerry et al (came down to the last bonus)

We beat A Slant of Penn on Dull Brown Walls 230-225 getting the second and third parts of bonus twenty and by the protest Jerry made on Eric's behalf not being decided in their favor. Just two rounds before that, actually! That was a damn good game, and those matches at ICT (as well as prelim matches against Chicago B and Stanford that were very tense at points) are certainly up there for me as well. Actually, we played a lot of teams close at ACF, too--i think we dropped to Stanford by five or ten, Chicago by forty...
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby grapesmoker » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:50 pm

Marchbanks wrote:
grapesmoker wrote:An interesting record: I believe that Nick Meyer, formerly of Berkeley, played in every ICT from its inception until 2003. I'm not sure if that's a record for ICT attendance but it might be.

Oh, hey, is that this guy? Man, I didn't know he played quizbowl!


The very same. He's been into competitive Scrabble for a long time.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby No Rules Westbrook » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:00 pm

Argh, fucking Caesar and Cleopatra losing 06 Nats for me, I'd just studied all kinds of works of GB Shaw that week too (I'd totally have won on a John Bull's Other Island tossup, damn it!)...it's my Pomeranchuk Cooling. I still remember stupidly saying Payne's Landing for New Echota earlier in that round too.

For great matches, I really loved 2008 Chicago Open...the most entertaining part of writing questions is watching good teams play them, and I was delighted to watch those two great teams in the finals play a pretty hotly contested match. Same goes for Pomeranchuk Cooling Nats.

Speaking of players emerging, at that same CO, I watched Brendan Byrne display that he'd emerged as a qb player. I'm notoriously difficult to convince, but I kept watching him buzz on all sorts of clues that middling players just don't buzz on, and at some point I went "nope, this is for real"...it's rare that you get to see that kind of emergence. Eric came from relatively nowhere too, but with him, it's been more of a steady climb - at least the times I've seen him.
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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby setht » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:19 pm

bt_green_warbler wrote:
marnold wrote:Back to the unbreakable records, Seth seemed to think that Jeff Hoppes finished his NAQT playing career by never going to an ICT without coming away with a title, whether overall or undergrad.


This didn't happen. I played the 2003 ICT my first year of grad school (thus no longer undergrad eligible) and made it to the finals. But it was the 2003 ICT: everyone got destroyed by Subash.


I'm not sure how I managed to forget about the 2003 ICT. In that case, my revised claim is that Jeff has both the most ICT titles and the highest ICT title efficiency among people who have played at least 3 ICTs.

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Re: The quizbowl decades project

Postby Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:20 pm

Top Ten Southern California QB moments

Perhaps it would be more interesting to just do top 10 moments in high school (and then another top 10 moments for college). Who can forget Henry Gorman's remarkable exclamations at Prison Bowl, or Jerry throwing cups? I also want to do a little campaigning in this category for my game against Maggie Walker at the PACE NSC 08 when I screamed like you wouldn't believe after negging the Gorecki tossup. Another fun one might be top worst posts on hsquizbowl.

As for my favorite game, luckily this one is recorded by Mike, but it would have to go with the 2008 Minnesota Open finals when, 5 tossups from the end, we were down to Chicago by a seemingly insurmountable margin, only to have them not answer any more tossups and end up with us winning by 5. The highlight was Matt's reaction to pulling 7 Macaw without confidently knowing the answer and having that decide the game.
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