2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Old college threads.

2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby eliza.grames » Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:28 pm

Minnesota will be collaborating on Illinois on writing MUT this year. Questions will come from Illinois players, packet submissions by younger Minnesota teams, and the editors/writers of the tournament. This year's central writing team/editors are, in no particular order, Andrew Hart, myself (Eliza Grames), Mike Cheyne, Gaurav Kandlikar, Robin Heinonen, and Ike Jose. The difficulty will be roughly the same as past incarnations, which means slightly harder than ACF Fall and slightly easier than ACF Regionals. Last year's set can be found here.

Mirrors: We are interested in running mirrors everywhere there is quizbowl. The mirror fee is $30/team (including house teams), just like last year. The dates for mirrors can be anywhere from March 17 to the end of the semester, pending complaints. The reason for this is that there aren't a lot of tournaments besides ACF Nats and ICT, so different regions have different availability for tournament hosting. If you are interested in hosting a mirror, please contact me at quizbowl@umn.edu.

Mirror sites:
East Coast: VCU 4/14
East Coast2: South Carolina 3/17
Southeast: Tulane 4/14
South: Valencia TBD
Great Lakes: Waterloo 3/17
Midwest: Illinois 4/14
Northwest: Boise State 4/21
UK: Warwick 4/28
West Coast (North): Berkeley 4/07
West Coast (South): Claremont 4/14
Northeast: MIT 4/28

Distribution:
1/1 American Literature
1/1 British Literature
1/1 European Literature
1/1 World and Other Literature
1/1 American History
1/1 World History
1/1 British/Euro History
1/1 British Euro History
1/1 Physics
1/1 Chemistry
1/1 Biology
1/1 Other Sci (math, CS, earth science, geology, astronomy)
1/1 Painting
1/1 Music
1/1 Other Art
1/1 Myth
1/1 Philosophy
1/1 Religion
1/1 Social Science
1/1 Trash/Current Events/Other

Logistics: Details to follow in a few months.
Last edited by eliza.grames on Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:57 pm, edited 18 times in total.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Cheynem » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:30 pm

Just to be clear, this is the merging of MUT and GAAP alluded to elsewhere.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby theMoMA » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:00 pm

eliza.grames wrote:The difficulty will be roughly the same as past incarnations, which means slightly harder than ACF Fall and slightly easier than ACF Regionals.


For what it's worth, I've always written and edited this tournament to reflect a Fall-level difficulty. I think we've traditionally edited it that way, but it may be that our concept of difficulty (and the fact that it's a spring tournament, which somewhat expands the things people are comfortable writing on) has made it shade a little harder than that. Either way, new teams and players will not feel out of place at this tournament.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby cornfused » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:23 pm

I've actually always found MUT to be slightly easier than Fall. I guess this just shows that difficulty is hard to pin down.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby mhayes » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:10 pm

eliza.grames wrote:VCU 3/31


Isn't this the date of the ICT?

Also, we're interested in hosting a mirror of this, but we have to hash out a few things related to staffing since we have a lot of new people with little experience in this regard.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:13 pm

mhayes wrote:
eliza.grames wrote:VCU 3/31


Isn't this the date of the ICT?


It is.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Matt Weiner » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:15 pm

VCU mirror date is TBD, in fact.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby eliza.grames » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:25 pm

Matt Weiner wrote:VCU mirror date is TBD, in fact.


Fixed.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby eliza.grames » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:31 pm

mhayes wrote:Also, we're interested in hosting a mirror of this, but we have to hash out a few things related to staffing since we have a lot of new people with little experience in this regard.


Waterloo emailed me first about hosting a mirror, so that solves your staffing problem!
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby mhayes » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:53 pm

eliza.grames wrote:
mhayes wrote:Also, we're interested in hosting a mirror of this, but we have to hash out a few things related to staffing since we have a lot of new people with little experience in this regard.


Waterloo emailed me first about hosting a mirror, so that solves your staffing problem!


Ouch...
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby eliza.grames » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:31 am

mhayes wrote:
eliza.grames wrote:
mhayes wrote:Also, we're interested in hosting a mirror of this, but we have to hash out a few things related to staffing since we have a lot of new people with little experience in this regard.


Waterloo emailed me first about hosting a mirror, so that solves your staffing problem!


Ouch...


I don't see how that's a bad thing. You have inexperienced players (who I'm guessing would rather play the tournament than staff it) and Waterloo wants to host, which means they'll be providing the staff. It seems to be a win-win if you ask me, except that you have to drive like six hours to get there, which really isn't terrible.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby mhayes » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:29 pm

Sorry, my response came across differently than what was intended. I actually agree with you.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby eliza.grames » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:45 am

South Carolina has added a second mirror on the east coast. I just wanted to make it clear that this was not an oversight of the VCU mirror, and that VCU told South Carolina that there was not overlap.

We still have no mirrors west of Minnesota. If you are interested, please contact me relatively soon.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Khanate » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:08 pm

Distribution question.

Are you considering opera, ballet, and musicals in Music or in "Other Art"?
Last edited by Khanate on Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Ukonvasara » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:11 pm

Khanate wrote:Distribution question?

Are you considering opera, ballet, and musicals in Music or in "Other Art"?

The latter, which is generally evenly divided between "opera, ballet, jazz, and other auditory fine arts" and "sculpture, architecture, photography, and other visual fine arts".
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Edward Elric » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:14 pm

Since Illinois is collaborating with Minnesota on this, do you forsee a mirror at UIUC?
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Ike » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:09 pm

Yes. Expect an announcement in the near future.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Papa's in the House » Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:38 pm

Edward Elric wrote:Since Illinois is collaborating with Minnesota on this, do you forsee a mirror at UIUC?

The date is 4/14. The TD will make an announcement sometime soon.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby mtimmons » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:38 pm

Maybe this is somewhere earlier in this thread but what is the date of the Minnesota site?
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby eliza.grames » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:58 pm

mtimmons wrote:Maybe this is somewhere earlier in this thread but what is the date of the Minnesota site?


Whoops, I forgot to ever add that - thanks for the reminder! It will be on 4/14.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Fake 4-ball » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:31 pm

Stony Brook could try to provide the NE mirror for this instead of a high school tournament (only because we do not want to butt heads with my old high school's tournament), but we would need quite a bit of help.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby eliza.grames » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:50 pm

Production of Watchmen wrote:Stony Brook could try to provide the NE mirror for this instead of a high school tournament (only because we do not want to butt heads with my old high school's tournament), but we would need quite a bit of help.


Do you mean you would need quite a bit of help with logistics and planning to host a tournament, or you would need staff from the NE area?
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Fake 4-ball » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:18 pm

Primarily the latter. As it is, we have yet to receive confirmation that we'd actually have the space to hold a tournament regardless of what set we eventually use.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Kyle » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:40 pm

Eliza -- on the topic of mirrors, the University of Warwick wants to host one in Coventry on April 28. They are supposed to contact you this weekend.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby eliza.grames » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:56 am

Production of Watchmen wrote:Primarily the latter. As it is, we have yet to receive confirmation that we'd actually have the space to hold a tournament regardless of what set we eventually use.


Let me know if you find that you have a space and staff to host a mirror; in the meantime, I'll hold off on actively seeking out NE hosts.

Kyle wrote:Eliza -- on the topic of mirrors, the University of Warwick wants to host one in Coventry on April 28. They are supposed to contact you this weekend.


Oh good, because Manchester told me that Sheffield would probably want to host, and Sheffield told me that Manchester would be interested. I will let you know if I don't hear from them and need to get contact information. Thanks for arranging things over there!
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Cheynem » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:55 pm

Note about eligibility:

This tournament is for undergraduates. You can be any year in playing as an undergraduate as long as you are in a typical degree-earning program. By undergraduate, I am defining as "have not earned a bachelor's degree" or the equivalent of such (i.e., you can have played five years of college quizbowl and still be an undergraduate).

You can play if you are a high schooler.

You cannot play if you are not in school at all. If you graduated like in the fall, you can play--that's cool.

You cannot play on an open team. You must play for your college or educational institution (obviously if you need to "go rogue" as a high schooler that's okay). We are aware that occasionally field sizes may require some flexibility here--please contact us if this is something that needs resolved.

You cannot play if you are a graduate student. I am aware that there are occasional gray areas here, so I would urge all TD's to run any potential "question mark" eligibility cases with the MUT editors. If we determine there is a bad faith example of eligibility gaps being broken, we will not be amused.

THESE RESTRICTIONS APPLY TO EVERY SITE, NOT JUST THE MAIN SITE.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Wackford Squeers » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:33 am

Cheynem wrote:Note about eligibility:

You can play if you are a high schooler.

You cannot play if you are not in school at all. If you graduated like in the fall, you can play--that's cool.

You cannot play on an open team. You must play for your college or educational institution (obviously if you need to "go rogue" as a high schooler that's okay). We are aware that occasionally field sizes may require some flexibility here--please contact us if this is something that needs resolved.

THESE RESTRICTIONS APPLY TO EVERY SITE, NOT JUST THE MAIN SITE.


There was some talk of Illinois's NASAT team playing the UIUC site. Would such a team fall into one of these categories, and would it be allowed to play?
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Cheynem » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:43 am

I'll talk about this with the other editors. I think we would encourage high schools to play with high schools if possible, but we are willing to be somewhat flexible.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby in on these shenanigans » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:00 am

Cheynem wrote:I'll talk about this with the other editors. I think we would encourage high schools to play with high schools if possible, but we are willing to be somewhat flexible.


FYI (if you didn't already know), a recent IHSA ruling has rendered it illegal for high school teams to play college tournaments against college players if they have any assistance from their school (i.e. their coach can't drive them and their school can't pay the entry fee).
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Cheynem » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:09 pm

Right, we obviously want to be flexible regarding these restrictions.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Fake 4-ball » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:23 pm

Welp, we can't actually host this.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Cheynem » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:24 pm

I heard rumors about MIT and Bellarmine possibly being interested in mirroring. Anyone want to confirm or deny?
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby List of Fighting Spirit characters » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:12 pm

I believe that it was actually Berkeley who wanted to host on 3/31. I never heard anything about Bellarmine potentially hosting MUT.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Cheynem » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:39 pm

My mistake, probably.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby nadph » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:07 am

That was me tentatively expressing interest if a Berkeley mirror fell through, and didn't have any official Bellarmine support. Sorry about the confusion, Mike. Has a Berkeley mirror been confirmed as of yet?
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:53 pm

Not yet.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby eliza.grames » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:39 pm

I didn't hear anything about a Berkeley mirror before now, so Claremont College will be hosting a mirror on April 14, which they just confirmed.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby nadph » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:34 pm

eliza.grames wrote:I didn't hear anything about a Berkeley mirror before now, so Claremont College will be hosting a mirror on April 14, which they just confirmed.

I'm sorry for continuing to pester you about this, but does this preclude a northern California mirror? Given the number of teams in the Bay Area who might have difficulty traveling, it might make sense to split California into separate regions for this and other "easier" tournaments.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Cheynem » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:36 pm

I can't speak for Eliza, but I certainly don't see any problem with more mirrors because like noted capitalist tool Michael Arnold, I like money. And as you point out, California is quite a big region.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby eliza.grames » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:02 pm

Claremont says that it is okay if there are both southern and northern California mirrors, so if someone in the Bay Area wants to host that is fine.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby eliza.grames » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:20 pm

eliza.grames wrote:Logistics: Details to follow in a few months.


See Mike Cheyne's post about the Minnesota site for this information.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby sephirothrr » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:31 pm

Is there any word on when this set will be cleared?
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Cheynem » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:36 pm

There are still mirrors in the Northwest, MIT, and Valencia, plus an English mirror. Probably at the end of April. Any feedback should be sent to me or the other editors.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Kyle » Sun May 13, 2012 7:50 am

Here are stats from the Warwick mirror: http://hsquizbowl.org/db/tournaments/990/stats/all/

I wasn't there, so I can't explain them to you.

EDIT -- Oh, since it is not clear from the stats, I should specify that Oxford A, the team with the third-best record, won the tournament. Manchester, the team with the fourth-best record, was second.
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Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Postby Edmund » Mon May 14, 2012 5:08 pm

I was there; the format was very confusing since it involved an unnecessary bracket and re-bracket and there were also semi-finals. This still doesn't really make sense of the stats.
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