NJ Discussion 2011-2012

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NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Great Bustard » Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:48 am

Two updates from my corner of the quiz bowl universe:
First, I have been appointed interim quiz bowl coach at my alma mater of Ridgewood High School in Ridgewood, NJ. We'll definitely be competing in The Challenge, as that was the initial impetus for me being recruited, though we'll certainly go to a lot more tournaments as well than Ridgewood has the past few years. Which tournaments exactly, I don't know, though we'll likely go to Bergen, Half Hollow Hills, HSNCT, and a few others. As per History Bowl/potential conflict of interest, I don't think this should be an issue at all - after all I'm teaching at ACE Camp this week and helping other teams. Obviously I will not use any inside information in my position as coach to give Ridgewood players an unfair advantage. This really should go without saying, but I'm being forthcoming about it from the start to make sure everything is in the open. My sole reason for accepting the position at Ridgewood on top of everything else I'm doing is to give kids there the sort of opportunities that launched my quiz bowl career, and to give all teams throughout the region another supportive program that will help spread the growth of quiz bowl in the greater NYC area to everyone's benefit.
Secondly, let's build on the momentum from putting together our all-state team for NASAT, and organize - however loosely at first - a NJ coaches' (and players?) organization. Such an organization can be limited at first to naming next year's NASAT team (along with an all-freshman team and other similar ideas), but it can then hopefully serve as the framework for more, depending on people's interest. I will be doing lots and lots of NHBB recruiting in NJ and the greater region this coming year, so many new schools will be getting their first taste of buzzer-based academic competition. It would be great to point them in the direction of a statewide (or regionwide) organization to help deepen quiz bowl's roots at their school. Post here if you have any thoughts on the matter along with your thoughts on how 2011-2012 is shaping up more generally speaking. St. Joe's looks to be the strongest team in the state with Alex and Jason returning, though across the Hudson, the Hunter juggernaut looms for all those who would dare challenge perhaps the nation's top team heading into the new year!
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Fake 4-ball » Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:40 pm

Looking at the list of competing schools next year on The Challenge, there's something about schools named Communications, Technology, and Neptune that I find amusing. Neptune for the same reason as Valhalla in Westchester.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Edward Powers » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:02 pm

Does anyone have any thoughts about the 2011-2012 Season in New Jersey? It seems that several of NJ's best teams in 2010-2011, teams like Seton Hall, Bergen and Livingston, might be in rebuilding modes for 2011-2012. Some might rebuild quickly; in fact I would not be surprised to see all 3 competing for championships very soon. My team, St. Joe's, is returning it's two top scorers, Alex & Jason, and we did have some talented B Team players, so SJHS will be a dangerous team again this season. High Technology brings back Grace and a solid B team, so it too will be dangerous, and Ranney brings back Roey, who finished 26th or so in individual scoring at the HSNCT. If he can get some help, Ranney will doubtless be quite competitive. East Brunswick had some excellent players last year, as did Millburn, but I am not sure how many of these are returning for next season's campaign. Doubtless there will also be teams that will be surprisingly good but that are currently unknown. So, does anyone have any input to add so that perhaps we can get a clearer picture for New Jersey for next season?
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Fake 4-ball » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:35 pm

I looked on The Challenge for some potential "unknown teams". It appears that John P. Stevens (which lost to BCA in round 3 with a score unknown to me due to the video not being uploaded) brings back 3 players, losing their captain. Torah Academy of Bergen (which gave St. Joe's a close game in round 1) returns its captain and another player. Neither have competed in pyramidal quizbowl in the past three years, but if convinced, they could probably be decent teams.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby The Predictable Consequences » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:40 pm

High Tech B was impressive at NAC, putting up more than solid numbers in the prelims. While I know this isn't the best measure of how well a team will do at pyramidal quizbowl, it shows a level of knowledge that when added to Grace's talents could be dangerous. In addition, East Brunswick B was easily the best team we played at Chatham, and probably the strongest in the Main Division there. I don't know who is returning from their team but they should be very good next year.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Fake 4-ball » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:33 pm

High Tech B did pretty badly at the NAQT State tournament, but it might be because the :chip: B team was in fact three members of the six member NAQT A team plus someone else.
And yeah, East Brunswick looks like a consistently good team.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby The Infanta » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:20 am

High Tech A also played pretty well at Princeton last October, IIRC.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Edward Powers » Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:39 pm

Here is an updated Top 6 for the Northeast Area based upon some early season results:

1. Hunter A: What can we say? No surprise really, but to go 12-0, average over 500 PPG and over 22PPB on this Set WITHOUT half of their A Team present is truly outstanding and indicates why most in the country who are in the know have selected this team as Number 1 in the USA as well. The greatest danger for this team might be boredom, since few teams in the area can match it or challenge it, but this team is doubtless too experienced to allow boredom to ever become a serious problem;

2A. Saint Joe's A: My Falcons traveled South to Maryland & Virginia over the past 2 weeks and played 6 Top 25 teams toe to toe, with wins over St. Anselm's, Detroit Catholic Central, TJ, GDS, Richard Montgomery and Walt Whitman. We also lost to most of these teams as well, but overall, this is an outstanding team that has already shown that it can play with almost anyone in the nation;

2B. Hunter B: Picking up where they left off last year, this B Team is truly exceptional and might in fact be the 2nd best team in the area. Certainly its 21+ PPB on Set 107, surpassed only slightly by the 2 teams above and by a High Tech team it defeated yesterday at PHSAT in the Semifinals, indicates its depth and its skill. So, it seems that this team is destined to play a double role---to keep pushing its A Team towards greatness while potentially becoming the best B team in the United States, a legitimate Top 10-20 contender by the time Nationals roll around;

4. High Technology: With one of the best individual players around, High Tech can scare anyone, and if Grace gets really hot, probably even defeat anyone, with the possible exception of Hunter A. Further, yesterday's performance at PHSAT reveals that Grace has some help and this makes HT even more dangerous, possibly the best team in NJ by year's end. The real question for HT: will it compete enough against top notch teams to get the seasoning it might need to climb to the top?;

5A:Wissahickon: Though technically not a local team, Anderson plays so often in our area that he and his team are dangerous to anyone around if they play their best. They are only one of a few teams in the area that has a victory over Hunter A in the last few years, so this alone testifies to their potential;

5B: Great Neck South: This team seems to have great potential and played quite well at Princeton yesterday. I know when I read for them last year they seemed quite talented, and their stats yesterday suggest they have excellent potential.

One team not ranked but which could climb close to the Top is White Plains. The problem I have at the moment is I do not know how many returning starters they have coming back from last year's very talented bunch---I think they have 3 returning starters, and, if I am correct, they can give anyone trouble. One other factor though is that they do not play too much outside of Westchester, so it is harder to get an accurate view of their potential.

These are, of course, one person's judgments. What do others think?
Last edited by Edward Powers on Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby The Predictable Consequences » Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:06 pm

I'll vouch for White Plains's ability. They are indeed returning 3 starters from last year's team, and by my estimation, would probably be at around High Tech's level. This is all guesswork, though, as I haven't seen any of these teams on good questions yet. LIFT next Saturday will help determine how good WP is this year.

I'd also like to put in a plug for Ardsley; again, can't tell much until LIFT, but I'm thinking we could possibly sneak our way up there.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Great Bustard » Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:39 pm

I'd think everything Ed and Ryan have said is accurate. As for Ridgewood, it will all depend on how much the team prepares. Our A team at full strength is probably about the tenth best team in the NYC area currently, and from there, we'll see what we can do. One plus for Ridgewood looking ahead - right now we don't have one senior on the team, but about 30 9th-11th graders have been coming out to practices regularly.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Grace » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:20 am

I'm always a little hesitant to post my opinions on this forum, since I really don't know the regional circuit very well--mostly because High Tech doesn't enter that many tournaments. That caveat aside, I have to say that I largely agree with Coach Powers' rankings, with Ardsley probably appearing somewhere close to High Tech's level.

Hunter A is, without a doubt, spectacular, especially considering that they were missing two members of their A-team at PHSAT. Even taking that into account, their PPG and PPB may be misleadingly low, simply because they did not seem to be playing very seriously, at least in the one game that I observed. Admittedly, this may be because the game I saw them play was the one against Hunter B.

St. Joes', based on the PPB and PPG from the MFT (run on the same set as PHSAT) is also looking extremely strong--Jason and Alex are both exceptional players. The head to head wins at MFT were also very impressive. With these factors in mind, I would say that as of right now, St. Joes' is a stronger team than Hunter B.

Hunter B effectively scalped us in the first half of the High Tech-Hunter B playoff game (270-something to -5), but--and this may be ego-stroking--that may have simply been a run of spectacularly bad luck, since we outscored them 2:1 in the second half to lose slightly less ignominiously than expected. This is a talented and very dedicated team with lots of promise for the coming year. Paul Moschetti, in particular, is a strong player on a very good team.

High Tech is making an effort to go to more tournaments, though they'll likely all be in-state (with the possible exception of Prison Bowl). My teammates and I are trying to hold practices this year, and I think the extra preparation will do good things for us. The backing of my teammates this year has really made a huge difference (hence the massive jump in PPB since last spring). In general, I think that we'll get better as we get more exposure to good quizbowl over the course of the year. Right now, the things we lack are experience and geography knowledge. Both problems are crippling High Tech right now, particularly on NAQT sets.

Ardsley, based on their performance at NAC (of course, never a reliable indicator of real quizbowl performance), is a good team that should also improve with more experience. Ryan has lots of talent, and if he gets teammate backing (again--I'm speculating without much concrete information), Ardsley could definitely be top contender in the area.

Wissahickon has Anderson, so that counts for a lot. He buzzes fast and early, and has a tremendous amount of talent. But one-man teams don't usually work out that well, since it's really difficult to cover everything all by yourself. Nonetheless, the HT-Wissahickon game was close, and if the outcomes of a few buzzer races had changed, they could well have beaten us by a pretty decent margin.

Great Neck South: I would argue that this is a much weaker team than Wissahickon, but they still play well and, as Coach Powers noted, have lots of potential.

Millburn: Still a good team with some promising players, but they don't buzz very aggressively and have some knowledge holes that may prove troublesome.

Again, I haven't really watched the teams in our region much, since High Tech has not attended many tournaments, so please keep that in mind if I make a gruesomely inaccurate judgment.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Edward Powers » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:55 am

Welcome back to the boards, Grace, and congratulations on High Tech's excellent performance at PHSAT yesterday. And I do hope to see you at more tournaments, especially Prison Bowl, because it usually attracts a half-dozen or so National calibre teams and you and your teammates deserve a chance to test yourselves against that calibre of opponent.

Additionally, I think your analysis combines an effort at accuracy with some interesting and self-deprecating humor about being scalped and/or salving your ego...so it is an excellent analysis as far as I am concerned. :-)

So, do not be wary of posting. Heaven knows I make my share of mistakes, but that does not keep me from posting again and thus doubtless making more, in both the present and future. Besides, nothing ventured, nothing gained. So, thanks for your post; it was interesting to read an independent perspective, especially from such a talented player who sees the game from the perspective of an engaged competitor, probably the most focused and valuable perspective available.

EDIT: For grammatical errors.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Just a Guy Made Of Dots and Lines » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:24 am

Does anyone know if the Henderson team that was at Princeton is the same one that went to Delaware Fall last year, or National History Bowl's National Finals last year? They're listed as a Pennsylvania team under NHBB Finals and as a New York team on the Excelsior rankings website. I read for them at Princeton (where they swept their prelims bracket, going 8-0) and they seemed to have a lot of potential.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby jonpin » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:31 pm

My rankings are basically the same as what people have said. High Tech moves into the drivers' seat for my local #4 with backup for Grace and a great performance this past weekend. My post from Facebook the other night was this
Things learned at Princeton's quiz bowl tournament: Hunter is scary good, we are solid and have new recruits but a tough road to climb, High Tech has some support and will contend for things, Princeton is still incapable of running on time, and no seriously Hunter is going to destroy everything in their path


We were missing Josh and Sam, which certainly hurt, and I feel like we would've made top 8 had we had a full-strength A team, but we need to prove ourselves before I can start ranking us in the regional top 5. We'll all get another data point at Kellenberg in a few weeks.
Charter and Wissahickon are a bit too distant for me to count them in this region, but they are both great teams.

Caterpillar D6 wrote:Does anyone know if the Henderson team that was at Princeton is the same one that went to Delaware Fall last year, or National History Bowl's National Finals last year? They're listed as a Pennsylvania team under NHBB Finals and as a New York team on the Excelsior rankings website. I read for them at Princeton (where they swept their prelims bracket, going 8-0) and they seemed to have a lot of potential.

According to NAQT.com (and a match of players confirms), it's B. Reed Henderson HS in West Chester, PA, who attended Delaware Fall last year.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Edward Powers » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:50 pm

I agree with Jon that the Henderson team at Princeton's PHSAT on Saturday was from Pennsylvania. We played them last year at the Delaware Fall Tournament and a cross check of their rosters then with the PHSAT confirms Jon's conclusion, since several underclassmen from last year are back with this year's team.

On a different note, I would not be surprised to see BCA back near the top of the NJ quizbowl world very soon, and their performance Saturday without Josh and Sam bodes well for their future.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby af frey » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:39 am

Does anybody know who is returning from last year's Seton Hall team?
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Edward Powers » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:06 pm

Jimmy and Kevin have definitely graduated. Not sure about Akkad, and I think J.P. is currently a Junior.

And welcome to the boards Alex.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby SHP Pirate » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:23 pm

I can confirm that Jimmy, Kevin, and Akkad have all graduated. JP (a junior) should have a solid year as he will no longer be playing in Jimmy's shadow. We are definitely rebuilding this year.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby jonpin » Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:56 pm

I just got HHH West's invitation. They're January 7, and have disappointingly decided to keep their abnormally high entry fee ($90/$80), and their abnormally low number of guaranteed games (5). The letter says they're playing set 111, which would be a standard set, but is also the one booked for Millburn's tournament in March.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:31 pm

jonpin wrote:The letter says they're playing set 111, which would be a standard set, but is also the one booked for Millburn's tournament in March.


If they want to use regular difficulty, they have no choice but to use a set that is also being heard in New Jersey:

107: Princeton
111: Millburn
113: Bloomfield
115: Chatham
116: (state championship, and I certainly hope we have two separate events this year)

(109 was used at Kellenberg, so it is obviously ruled out.)
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Fake 4-ball » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:11 am

bt_green_warbler wrote:116: (state championship, and I certainly hope we have two separate events this year)

I'm very tempted to help out with (heck, maybe even host if I had confidence in finding sufficient staff) a potential Long Island/Lower NY state tournament, but I'm also nervous about bumping heads with KPAQT II the next week. Long Island teams, quite simply put, aren't used to competing twice in one month. I recall hearing that GNS was interested in holding states as well.

Hills West upgraded to an IS set? That's pretty ambitious.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:15 pm

Production of Watchmen wrote:I'm very tempted to help out with (heck, maybe even host if I had confidence in finding sufficient staff) a potential Long Island/Lower NY state tournament


We haven't had a bid submitted for either a metro-NYC or an upstate New York state championship. Anyone interested in hosting one of these events: please email me!
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby SHP Pirate » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:11 pm

Why are both Millburn and Half Hollow Hills using the same set? I realize that NAQT treats NYC/Long Island and New Jersey as different geographical regions and that there are a limited number of sets, but the two schools are less than 60 miles apart. If an upstate NY team ran this packet, there would be no problem due to distance. I can only guess that this will be good news for Millburn's attendance while at the same time, be a potentially significant loss to HHH. (By my count, 17 NJ teams attended HHH last year. I wonder how many will choose Millburn instead this spring?) Just a few thoughts ...
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:16 pm

It's possible Half Hollow Hills may have meant to claim IS #112A instead. When our servers are back up, we'll get in touch with them.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Mechanical Beasts » Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:35 pm

bt_green_warbler wrote:It's possible Half Hollow Hills may have meant to claim IS #112A instead. When our servers are back up, we'll get in touch with them.

They do very often use an A set for their tournament, so you're right, it does seem likely.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby SHP Pirate » Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:52 pm

That would certainly make more sense. It would be a shame for so many teams to be forced to choose between locations when they are so close.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby SHP Pirate » Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:25 pm

Jeff,

Any news here? We just received our invitation to HHH and it too listed IS 111 as the set. Is this accurate?
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby bird bird bird bird bird » Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:30 pm

Maybe. We will write to them tonight and figure out what set is best for them to use.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Northern Central Railway » Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:27 pm

Hi everyone,

Don't know if this is the right place to post this since I'm new to actually posting on these boards, but I'm located in the Denville/Parsippany area and am looking to get into moderating. I played quiz bowl all throughout high school and undergrad (I'm quite familiar with NAQT) and am looking to get involved again. If anyone who posts in this thread knows of any coaches/tournaments looking for moderators within a reasonable traveling distance of the Denville/Parsippany area, feel free to send me a private message.

Thanks.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby The Predictable Consequences » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:55 pm

The NY/NJ Date Claims thread (viewtopic.php?f=47&t=11517) is a good place to start. I'm sure St. Joseph's of Metuchen would be glad to have you at their tournament on December 17th, especially as they are looking for extra staffers.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Dante (Bichette) » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:23 am

Figured I'd post a quick NY/NJ/Charter power rankings:

---TIER ONE---

1) Hunter A

No surprises here. It would be a huge let down if Hunter A didn't climb up the walls, and while the (exit) music knowledge on this team isn't great, it's not like they're going to need an airbag in that category. Although some members of Hunter A are paranoid about their chances, they are literally androids. Hunter's no tourist to this spot, and another team's going to be not only lucky but fitter, happier, and more productive to beat them. Yes, Hunter A truly is one subterranean homesick alien. Electioneering.

But seriously, Lily, York, Zihan, and Richard playing together are pretty much unstoppable by any team in the area.

---TIER TWO---

2) Hunter B

Maybe I'm too aggressive ranking us here, but I believe in my own team. We don't have any real weaknesses, and while no individual member of our team has a lockdown on a particular category the way Lily does on science or York does on lit way too hard for the high school canon, all three regular members have developed strong scoring abilities - in particular, Marianna can take over games at times with excellent lit/philo buzzes. David seems to have picked up a good amount of science knowledge out of nowhere. They're also good at bonuses, while I'm not. Overall, our biggest weakness is a tendency to get over-aggressive at times, leading to a lot of streakiness.

3) St. Joe's A

Every year, St. Joe's trots out a team consistently amazing at history. It doesn't matter who's playing for them. They're just amazing history players (perhaps this is Coach Power's influence). Alex and Jason obviously lead the team, but Nick and Mike are solid contributors as well. Overall, St. Joe's is probably just as good a team as us (Hunter B). We haven't played them yet this year (hence the rather-short writeup) and I'm really looking forward to the opportunity.

4) High Tech

Going into the season, I had expected Grace Liu to be a one-woman team. But based on what I've seen this year, that's not quite the case. Angela has played really well, and the three-headed sub monster (headed by Kevin, I think) knows a fair bit of science and a fairer bit of pop culture. Hunter B played them a couple times - and the games played out really oddly. In the first game, Hunter B was winning like 300-0 at halftime, but the final score wound up being 400-205 as High Tech got on a bit of a hot streak. In the second game, High Tech was beating us to a pulp but we got hot and wound up beating them by like 100. This team has the potential to beat pretty much anyone outside of Hunter A, and with even a bit more improvement by Grace's teammates, could challenge for the #2 spot by the end of the season.

---TIER THREE---

I don't really know enough about these teams to write in great detail about them, so I went essentially by PPB and gave greater weight to teams I've seen play. Each has flaws that prevents them from taking them to the next level (some are essentially one-man teams, and some are rebuilding), but by the end of the season at least one of these teams will probably show up in Tier 2. The difference between these two teams is exemplified in the difference between Ranney and Charter A. Roey can take over a game by himself, but he's more prone to slumps than a more balanced team like Charter A (which does have a couple excellent players in George and Bohan on it). Ridgewood will be great long-term - David Madden has done a great job changing the culture there and it should be a powerhouse in a few years. Hunter C doesn't really have a defined roster, but any two of Matthew Gurevitch/Wilton Rao/Mehnaj Ahmed combined with Willie Ha and Sarah Hamerling would be a pretty decent team - maybe not so great at tossups, but capable of pulling an absolutely amazing bonus conversion for a C team. They're not quite in league with the other 5 teams, who are all legitimate contenders at any regional tournament, but by the end of the year Hunter C will be a dangerous team that'll surprise a lot of people.

5) Ardsley (I do approve of Ryan Rosenberg's avatar)
6) Charter (Charter won't ever be not good)
7) Ranney (Has the potential to beat any team #2-6 if Roey has a good game)
8) GNS (just a bit below the other teams)
9) White Plains (good team, could rank higher)
10) Ridgewood (needs Justin to show up)
11) Millburn (knowledge holes, but has talent)
12) Hunter C (see above, blatant homerism)
13) Bergen (could surprise people with a big leap in performance this year)
14) Seton Hall (what I said about Bergen)
15) Kellenberg (good team, but negs a lot and needs more consistent play.)

I decided not to include Wissahickon on the list, but Anderson's capable of domination. He'd definitely earn a spot in Tier Two somewhere.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Edward Powers » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:57 am

This is a thoughtful analysis of the region as a whole, containing little that one could argue with considering how the season has unfolded thus far. As for my kids and their love of history, alas, I can take no credit. Seems Clio captured many of them at a young age and they are still passionately enchanted by her wondrous musings.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Great Bustard » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:09 am

Edward Powers wrote:This is a thoughtful analysis of the region as a whole, containing little that one could argue with considering how the season has unfolded thus far. As for my kids and their love of history, alas, I can take no credit. Seems Clio captured many of them at a young age and they are still passionately enchanted by her wondrous musings.

Or they just want to make a run for the NHBB National titles :) Also, Mark Chung is the strongest player on Ridgewood, not Justin. Mark will play more in the spring; he's been busy with Columbia's science program on most Saturdays so far. But watch out for Esther Sun. I think she's more into quizbowl than I was in high school, which is frightening. Her PPG is already starting to go up, and as she's a 9th grader, there's plenty of time for her to improve. Thomas Husband is also a very solid 9th grade talent. We're probably 2-3 years away from the big time, but we'll get there.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby roey » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:10 pm

I would generally agree with the rankings, but I'd just like to add that Ranney's 5th place at Kellenberg came when we were short one player. We usually try to bring four, and our team is better because of it. My teammates are all very good and we usually do best when we play well as a team, especially since they're great on bonuses. I'd also say that Bergen could probably be ranked higher than 13 since they did really well at LIFT and handed us our only prelim loss. Other than that though, I'd say that the rankings are very accurate. Of course, they could change soon, especially with the multitude of tournaments coming up in the next few months.

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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Jake » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:11 am

I would like to add that while our team is a bit unbalanced (Roey gets 70% of our questions), we're not just a one-man team. Roey is dominant in geography, sports, and current events, but he is not a literature buff and needs a lot of help in math and science questions. Also, Roey gets a lot of questions that our other members would get, he just realizes the answers ealier. He's one of the best players in the nation, and if we didn't have him it would be a huge blow to our team, but we'd still have a good A-squad. A team consisting of Sanjit Shasi, Peter Goldberg, Walter Cuje, and either myself or one of our rising sophmores could put up decent numbers.

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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby jonpin » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:12 pm

It's still a few months away, but I'm looking ahead to the April 14 state championship and wondering if we could have some sort of a New Jersey coaches' meeting among such people as myself, Ed, Mike, David, Stephen F, Guy, Peter, etc. (as well as Brother Nigel, Stephen Y, and some others should NYC be without a state championship again) for two purposes:
First, electing the 2012 New Jersey all-star team or at least starting the process. By getting the ball rolling a little earlier, hopefully we'd be able to have a few more of the first team able to plan and commit to NASAT (which is in Ohio, June 15-17 this year). I think our best option might be to work out this year's voting rules and hash out a non-exclusive "ballot" which coaches can think over and send in through the end of April, with recognition of the team a few weeks later at Chatham. If that's a bit late, we could always just post the results around May 1 to start the "traveling team" selection process and award the medals at Chatham.

Second (and this is where our friends from across the Hudson would join in), planning out the 2012-13 calendar. This year's calendar started out crowded and got more so, with the end result being an empty November and a March featuring 7 (and possibly soon to be 8 depending on the rescheduled date for GSAC) tournaments within 100 miles of Hackensack in 5 weekends.

Below is a list of each month, with the number of Saturdays and any relevant holidays to be subtracted, and some potential tournaments to be "grandfathered" into the calendar. I've only grandfathered one tournament per site, though this is obviously just a starting point for discussion.

September (4 + pre-Labor Day): A-series or otherwise Novice (Seton Hall?)
October (4): IS (Princeton), IS (Kellenberg)
November (3 + post-Thanksgiving): Novice (???), A-series? (Millburn)
December (4 + post-Christmas): Independent (St. Joseph)
January (4): A-series (HHH)
February (4, includes break): History Bowl (Ridgewood), IS (Bloomfield)
March (4 + Easter): Independent (Hunter), IS (Livingston)
April (4, includes break): States, Independent (Bergen), National History Bowl?
May (3 + pre-Memorial Day): HSAPQ (Colonia), IS (Chatham), HSNCT (Memorial Day)
June (4): PACE (MD + 1 or 2 weeks), NASAT (MD + 3 weeks)

This accounts for all 6 IS (PHSAT, LIFT, BATE, LMM, CAT, States), and 3 of the 4 A-series (Pirate?, Millburn, HHH) released by NAQT. I think we as a region should consider having one or two tournaments on HSAPQ's questions, and we need to have some sort of arrangement to deal with History Bowl without losing too many potential weekends.

Basically, the reason I'd like this discussion to occur is that we've become a bit of an arms race. On the recent high school podcast, the problem of housewrite proliferation came up. The only team in the area that writes their own tournament is Hunter, and they do a fantastic job of it, but I don't know that anyone else would be well-served to do the same, except in collaboration with other teams from other regions. Right now that's not our problem, our problem is that there are too many tournaments and they're not well-spaced, and it spirals. In order to attend fifteen tournaments and then a nationals, each team figures they have to host their own event. However, right now there just isn't any room for a new tournament to go.

So I'd like to be able to sit down with some coaches, perhaps during the check-in or re-bracketing at States, and start to hash out a calendar for next year.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby urbanpf » Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:30 pm

Would like to be part of that discussion, Jon - actually like the November placement you have for JBMAT -what we were considering doing after this year's one-time use of Livingston's "March Madness" spot. Will talk to you at states (4/14).

NOTE: Millburn is looking to move J.B.M.A.T (the Joseph Bookstaber Memorial Academic Tournament) to a
permanent spot of the Saturday before Thanksgiving in the fall of 2012 (after this year's one-time
use of Livingston's "March Madness" spot).


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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Edward Powers » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:16 pm

Saint Joe's will join in the discussion(s).
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Matthew Jackson » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:19 pm

I'd encourage New Jersey coaches to remember for this year and next that Yale's BHSAT welcomes New Jersey teams and isn't particularly difficult to reach. I'd love to see more teams from the NY/NJ area register for this year's competition, and am interested in avoiding major scheduling conflicts in future years so it's easier for teams to keep coming back.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby roey » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:12 pm

Ranney would like to also be a part of the schedule discussion, as we are trying to host a tournament on NAQT questions at some point next year, and would like to find a date for it that can allow for as many teams as possible to show up.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby jonpin » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:16 pm

roey wrote:Ranney would like to also be a part of the schedule discussion, as we are trying to host a tournament on NAQT questions at some point next year, and would like to find a date for it that can allow for as many teams as possible to show up.


One problem is that there just might not be enough NAQT questions available. I would suggest some tournaments consider HSAPQ's sets, as they are also very high-quality in my experience.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby The Predictable Consequences » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:51 pm

jonpin wrote:
roey wrote:Ranney would like to also be a part of the schedule discussion, as we are trying to host a tournament on NAQT questions at some point next year, and would like to find a date for it that can allow for as many teams as possible to show up.


One problem is that there just might not be enough NAQT questions available. I would suggest some tournaments consider HSAPQ's sets, as they are also very high-quality in my experience.


I second that, although an A set might be available. Hopefully (although this is unlikely), there will also be a tournament on good questions in Westchester.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby roey » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:26 pm

If there is an A-set, we can use it. It seems there might be, as Jon's schedule seems to show that three of the four A-sets are taken, leaving one that we could possibly use. We would prefer this, but if no sets are available, then we might be more willing to consider HSAPQ questions.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Great Bustard » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:26 am

I agree about the problem of tournament proliferation, though I can't really fault anyone for wanting to be in on hosting their own gig. I've dissuaded Ridgewood from hosting anything other than History Bowl for this reason.
Two other points of note: first, there are many other, and probably more effective ways to fundraise beyond hosting a tournament for other teams. Start with hosting a tournament for businesspeople in your town who could easily pay $30 per person for an evening's fundraiser. Beyond that, for History Bowl, talk to your local historical society.
Secondly, there would not be too many tournaments if we could just get more schools involved. Personally, I've just been way too busy this year with setting up the middle school bee, the international division, and coordinating 70 NHBB events to really recruit much in my backyard. But this will change next year - roughly 30 recruiting days will be spent in NJ and NYC, and we have recruiters already working (or about to work) Westchester, Connecticut, and Long Island. So we'll have a lot more schools for NHBB next year and of course we'll be pushing them to get involved in "regular" quizbowl too.
As for the 14th, I may or may not be able to make it, but Ridgewood will be there, and I'd be happy to send my thoughts in absentia if need be. For next year, though, look for a similar schedule to this year for NHBB with the caveat that I'd like to space NHBB Ridgewood and NHBB Princeton out more and finally add NHBB NYC to the mix on a Sunday as I've been threatening to do for 2 years.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Edward Powers » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:23 am

I do not agree that there has been tournament proliferation. For me, the real problem is an imbalance in the schedule. SJHS has not played a full regular set since Harvard, the 2nd Saturday of November. We only went to 4 tournaments from September to New Year's Day. Besides Princeton, no NJ tournament took place until the SJHS Mirror of DAFT in December. Yale's FAcT was scheduled in conflict with LIFT, and there was no Quaker Invitational in November. And, even in January, the only regular set offered was GSAC XIX at SJHS.

To me the real problem is that Jersey awakens from its slumber in February---2 NHBB's in February, Bloomfield, Millburn (usually Livingston) and Bergen in March, NJ States and now the National NHBB in April, then Colonia & Chatham in May. And this excludes Hunter's Prison Bowl and LI's Kings Park Tournaments in March & April, respectively, as well as potential new tournaments in Philly ( Wiss-Wash) and Tribeca, as well as several older ones in Delaware..

But go back to NJ alone for a moment: Only TWO tournaments from September through December!!!---Princeton's in early October, and the SJHS DAFT Set the last full week before Christmas. ( This excludes the Middle School effort by Bergen in October). In the 2nd semester, NJ has 10 events in the 2nd semester (1 at SJHS, 2 NHBB's, 1 each for Bloomfield, Millburn & Bergen, States at Princeton, the National NHBB originates from a Jersey alum, and our annual year-enders at Colonia & Chatham. Why do we wait until Spring, essentially, to wake up? My kids have been dying to play a regular set. And that is why I broke tradition and registered my A team for our own now snowed-out and yet to be rescheduled Mirror of GSAC---normally I would never play my kids in a tournament we host----except as substitute 'USA" type teams designed to balance brackets but never to play seriously in pursuit of a Championship, as I had expected my kids to try to do at GSAC last Saturday.

With roughly 30 potential weeks on the yearly calendar, surely we can achieve a better balance between semesters, allowing local teams to pick and choose which local tournaments they wish to attend, while leaving room for national or regional tournaments as well. And as for the choices of SJHS in hosting two tournaments within 6 weeks of each other---my preference last May was that the 2nd tournament be in March, and we had secured March 17th, but we were soon ousted by my Administration in favor of a Science competition and were only left with January 21st as an option. Since there still were no other tournaments listed at the time in the January time slot, we saw no problem with claiming the date in order to bring the excellent GSAC Set to our region. But ultimately the SJHS concerns are not the issue---it is the larger one of crafting a balanced schedule throughout the year, rather than the tightly scheduled one we are about to confront beginning in February.

Perhaps this year was anomolous---No SHP Pirate invitational in September, the clash of FAcT & LIFT in October, no Quaker Invitational in November, and a choice by Bergen to host a Middle School rather than its annual October HS tournament. Whatver the case, NJ & its surrounding region lost about 4 four tournaments as a consequence during the Fall Season.

So, for me creating scheule balance is the core issue, not the fact that some schools want to host. Without hosts, there woud be no hsquizbowl. And, recognizing this, we should also invite our friends from NY---Hunter, Kellenberg, King's Park and now perhaps Tribeca---to the discussions, while also not forgetting friends who traditionally host in near-by Connectcut & Delaware as well and who, on occasion, honor us with their presence at our tournaments in the NJ/NY region.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Great Bustard » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:07 pm

Ed,
That's a good analysis. I'll look into switching NHBB Ridgewood to November or December next year when I head over to RHS later today. NHBB Princeton will stay around where it is this year.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Down and out in Quintana Roo » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:27 pm

Edward Powers wrote:I do not agree that there has been tournament proliferation. For me, the real problem is an imbalance in the schedule. SJHS has not played a full regular set since Harvard, the 2nd Saturday of November. We only went to 4 tournaments from September to New Year's Day. Besides Princeton, no NJ tournament took place until the SJHS Mirror of DAFT in December. Yale's FAcT was scheduled in conflict with LIFT, and there was no Quaker Invitational in November. And, even in January, the only regular set offered was GSAC XIX at SJHS.

THIS. This was exactly the problem in our subregion as well, as i found nothing in November to attend, one tournament in December to attend, and one tournament in October to attend. Now suddenly there are so many competitions that almost every single week is full of something in a 200-mile radius from our school. This needs to be changed.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Smuttynose Island » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:51 pm

List of villages in West Virginia wrote:
Edward Powers wrote:I do not agree that there has been tournament proliferation. For me, the real problem is an imbalance in the schedule. SJHS has not played a full regular set since Harvard, the 2nd Saturday of November. We only went to 4 tournaments from September to New Year's Day. Besides Princeton, no NJ tournament took place until the SJHS Mirror of DAFT in December. Yale's FAcT was scheduled in conflict with LIFT, and there was no Quaker Invitational in November. And, even in January, the only regular set offered was GSAC XIX at SJHS.

THIS. This was exactly the problem in our subregion as well, as i found nothing in November to attend, one tournament in December to attend, and one tournament in October to attend. Now suddenly there are so many competitions that almost every single week is full of something in a 200-mile radius from our school. This needs to be changed.


Just as a heads up, there is going to be an effort next year to avoid such a thing happening again. Granted this effort will also most likely result in fewer tournaments occurring overall, but I don't think that that is necesarily a bad thing as it allows teams to focus on outreach for their tournament, leads to hosting collaboration, and hopefully larger events.
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Fake 4-ball » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:03 pm

Edward Powers wrote:I do not agree that there has been tournament proliferation. For me, the real problem is an imbalance in the schedule. SJHS has not played a full regular set since Harvard, the 2nd Saturday of November. We only went to 4 tournaments from September to New Year's Day. Besides Princeton, no NJ tournament took place until the SJHS Mirror of DAFT in December. Yale's FAcT was scheduled in conflict with LIFT, and there was no Quaker Invitational in November. And, even in January, the only regular set offered was GSAC XIX at SJHS.

This is effectively why I'm hoping to run a tournament at Stony Brook in the late fall next year, though my primary concern will be getting Long Island teams to attend so I might use a slightly easier set for that...
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Re: NJ Discussion 2011-2012

Postby Great Bustard » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:23 pm

THIS. This was exactly the problem in our subregion as well, as i found nothing in November to attend, one tournament in December to attend, and one tournament in October to attend. Now suddenly there are so many competitions that almost every single week is full of something in a 200-mile radius from our school. This needs to be changed.

There was NHBB Maryland, open to Delaware teams on an HSAPQ set on Nov. 19. Not to mention the original plans for NHBB Delaware on Jan. 14 when there wasn't anything else in state. As a social studies teacher, HSAPQ fan, and quiz bowl coach, I'm not sure why those weren't of interest to you.
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