trophies?

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trophies?

Post by tiwonge » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:24 am

How common are trophies at high school tournaments?

We didn't give any out for our kickoff tournament because we looked at it as an introductory/warmup tournament. I had been planning to give trophies for this next tournament, but they haven't been ordered yet, and somebody else raised the question of whether they're really needed.

We give books for the first place team/top scorers overall. Should I also have a 1st/2nd place trophy? (We set the registration fee high enough to buy them, so the money's there.)
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Re: trophies?

Post by kayli » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:26 am

I think you should for the top 3 teams. It's a nice gesture.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Charbroil » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:32 am

Arsonists Get All the Girls wrote:I think you should for the top 3 teams. It's a nice gesture.
I mean, trophies are expensive. If you're making, say, $200 from a tournament, then that would eat up something like a third to half of your profits.
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Re: trophies?

Post by seaborn » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:45 am

Speaking from slightly smaller range of experience, I've only seen trophies given out at the national level and at one high school tournament. Personally, I think trophies don't really add much to the tournament. The money would probably be better spent on stuff that your quiz bowl team needs.
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Re: trophies?

Post by tiwonge » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:46 am

There's a relatively cheap trophy place in town. Trophies cost between $8.25 (for an 8" trophy) to $24.95 (for a 16" trophy). If I take $5 from each team's registration fee, that's $50 or so, which should be enough to get 3 trophies (About $40 for one of each of the three sizes).

Honestly, at this point, we're not holding tournaments to make money, but to establish a presence. I looked at our costs, split it among the number of teams we expected, rounded it up to the nearest $5, and then raised it $15 (so that we could offer discounts). The money is nice, and we will get some, but as long as we still come out ahead with the trophies, I'm not going to worry about it.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:50 am

tiwonge wrote:There's a relatively cheap trophy place in town. Trophies cost between $8.25 (for an 8" trophy) to $24.95 (for a 16" trophy). If I take $5 from each team's registration fee, that's $50 or so, which should be enough to get 3 trophies (About $40 for one of each of the three sizes).

Honestly, at this point, we're not holding tournaments to make money, but to establish a presence. I looked at our costs, split it among the number of teams we expected, rounded it up to the nearest $5, and then raised it $15 (so that we could offer discounts). The money is nice, and we will get some, but as long as we still come out ahead with the trophies, I'm not going to worry about it.
Yeah, going with the trophies seems like a good idea (despite what randomly making up numbers might suggest).
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Re: trophies?

Post by cchiego » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:01 am

Trophies may help establish a smaller circuit (like Boise's) where administrators and teachers are unsure of how much to support this quizbowl thing and having a nice shiny trophy they can put on display (look at our ACADEMIC success!) could help a team get more funding/support. Some new-to-quizbowl sponsors might be more inclined to go to a competition if they're told that trophies are on the line (although I doubt this matters too much). Also, they're useful props for a photo op, again if you're trying to get word of quizbowl out there in the local media (holding up a book just doesn't have the same pizzaz). I'd recommend maybe having them for a tourney or two a year, but probably not for every one.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Auroni » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:46 am

It never actually hurts to give out trophies. As has been sufficiently demonstrated in this thread, trophy costs are rarely prohibitive for the team hosting the tournament. If you feel like you can score points with newer teams that dig the formal aspect of quizbowl tournaments, then by all means, go for it.
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Re: trophies?

Post by alexdz » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:48 am

Mizzou typically gives out plaques at all of our tournaments. At first, we did it as much to establish a presence, as we think it's sort of assumed procedure in the Missouri circuit. I can't say that the prospect of a trophy/plaque is really all that beneficial to attract teams, but it does help teams that attend want to come back in the future.

We're in our third active year, and as far as I'm concerned, we're looking at giving them out the rest of the time I'm with the club. We can get a set of four nice plaques for about $75, which is a registration and a half or so for our tournaments. If your tournament is small, that may be a big hit, but when you're at 30 teams like our tournament will be on Saturday, that's practically nothing. At a minimum, I'd say a first place award is probably a good thing to do, and anything beyond that is up to you to evaluate the cost related to the benefits.
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Re: trophies?

Post by David Riley » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:54 am

Although I have nothing against trophies, I have been giving books and certificates as awards for the past couple of years. Many of the schools at my tournaments tend to field competitive teams, and while some appear to have unlimited trophy space availalble, that isn't the case with others. I do agree that trophies can enhance the activity in the eyes of an administration, though (our 4th place IHSA trophy from 2009 is on display outside our principal's office, for example). Then, assuming budget permits, the championship trophy should be BIG, as should the others in terraced sizes. Who wants to go to a ten match tournament plus advantaged finals and take home a miniscule trophy?
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Re: trophies?

Post by Skepticism and Animal Feed » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:25 am

It seems that trophies went out of vogue with serious academic quizbowl for a while, probably because a lot of bad quizbowl events gave out plaques and stuff. I'm glad to see they're coming back, for all the reasons that Chris Chiego mentioned.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:59 am

Trophies never went out of vogue in high school. My opinion is that all high school tournaments should give out trophies to the top 2 or 3 teams because schools will never not want a trophy. Having them can benefit the schools that attend events because they can take the trophies back home and build up a collection of them, which they can then use to show off to their administration and convince them to do things like fund a trip to nationals. In lots of areas, trophies simply are the norm, so you have to keep those sorts of touches constant so that coaches are more fond of college events. I know at the college level there has been a move towards giving out books instead of trophies, but in high school the trophies are more important to teams, so I would rather see a move towards having books replace individual medals. At Mizzou we always give out books to our top scorers and then save some for the top 2 teams to pick from later. I think individual medals are pretty pointless.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Charbroil » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:09 pm

Ukonvasara wrote:
tiwonge wrote:There's a relatively cheap trophy place in town. Trophies cost between $8.25 (for an 8" trophy) to $24.95 (for a 16" trophy). If I take $5 from each team's registration fee, that's $50 or so, which should be enough to get 3 trophies (About $40 for one of each of the three sizes).

Honestly, at this point, we're not holding tournaments to make money, but to establish a presence. I looked at our costs, split it among the number of teams we expected, rounded it up to the nearest $5, and then raised it $15 (so that we could offer discounts). The money is nice, and we will get some, but as long as we still come out ahead with the trophies, I'm not going to worry about it.
Yeah, going with the trophies seems like a good idea (despite what randomly making up numbers might suggest).
Apparently the trophy places I go to are expensive? In any case, I didn't mean to imply that trophies are a bad idea; only that if your tournament only has about eight teams, then it doesn't seem necessary to give out trophies for the top three places. I'd definitely say that you should give a trophy to the top team.
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Re: trophies?

Post by tiwonge » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:12 pm

Charbroil wrote:
Apparently the trophy places I go to are expensive? In any case, I didn't mean to imply that trophies are a bad idea; only that if your tournament only has about eight teams, then it doesn't seem necessary to give out trophies for the top three places. I'd definitely say that you should give a trophy to the top team.
http://www.boisetrophy.com/academic.htm

Our field looks like it will be 10-12 teams. I was thinking top 2 (since they'd qualify for the NAQT HSNCT), and then maybe a "TD award" or something to give to some other team. Either the 3rd place team, or a team that scored a big upset, or came close in a lot of games, or displayed good sportsmanship, or maybe the winner of the loser's group, or something.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Golran » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:18 pm

I used trophydepot (http://www.trophydepot.com/) for SoCal states last year with first, second, third, middle bracket, and consolation bracket team trophies, 5 individuals for each of those teams, and 10 individuals overall and it came out to less that $200 with all the engraving and shipping included. Also, their customer service is really great over the phone (online chat is not that great).

Also, teams really seemed to like the idea of team trophies, but would have preferred books as the individual prizes.
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Re: trophies?

Post by dtaylor4 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:29 pm

Golran wrote:Also, teams really seemed to like the idea of team trophies, but would have preferred books as the individual prizes.
From my experience, the more serious teams prefer books. Some teams that are newer to our form of quizbowl may be a bit slow on the uptake, but several I've encountered seem to like the idea of getting books.

Of course, this is contingent on getting good books to give away.

To stray a bit: is there a consensus on neg prizes in high school? One that sticks out to me was at Loyburn a few weeks ago, where the neg prize consisted of copies of the Illinois "Rules of the Road" and a text for people getting a CDL, and some dog book. My understanding was that this was done to parody the IHSA.

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Re: trophies?

Post by Nine-Tenths Ideas » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:36 pm

Trophies were always a big hit at Blake tournaments, especially among teams that didn't frequent tournaments... frequently.

Neg prizes, on the other hand, should be only given out if you're sure the recipient has a sense of humor about the whole thing. I didn't mind receiving the numerous neg prizes I got in high school [a rock, Pikachu in Love, How to Hunt Ghosts] but other players, especially buzzer-happy beginners, might find being given a "prize" while being told they suck at quizbowl offensive.
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Re: trophies?

Post by tiwonge » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:40 pm

Isaacbh wrote:Trophies were always a big hit at Blake tournaments, especially among teams that didn't frequent tournaments... frequently.

Neg prizes, on the other hand, should be only given out if you're sure the recipient has a sense of humor about the whole thing. I didn't mind receiving the numerous neg prizes I got in high school [a rock, Pikachu in Love, How to Hunt Ghosts] but other players, especially buzzer-happy beginners, might find being given a "prize" while being told they suck at quizbowl offensive.
I've found so far that the people who win neg prizes also are top scorers, so it's not really saying that they suck at quiz bowl. (I try to point this out by showing this and saying that you have to be aggressive and buzz early and risk the neg to really do well.) The neg prizes have gone over pretty well, I think.

And as far as book prizes go, I frequent the library's book sale every time I hear about it. They have lots of classics on sale.
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Re: trophies?

Post by David Riley » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:49 pm

Colin--if there's a Half-Price Books in your area, check them out; as the title implies, they have lots of classics and other books for reduced or half-price.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Nine-Tenths Ideas » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:51 pm

Sorry, that wasn't meant as an affront to the general idea of neg prizes-- once when I was given a neg prize, I was actually told I suck at quizbowl [there was a joking subtext, but some people might not pick up on it.]
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Re: trophies?

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:57 pm

Neg prizes are really inappropriate in high school because there is a very high risk you will end up giving it to someone who is inexperienced or is unfamiliar with how it has a joking context. They are sort of a consummate "in-crowd" award for high school, because the in crowd knows they are given out in college and everybody else doesn't know what is going on.
Last edited by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) on Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Cheynem » Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:13 pm

In keeping with my general lack of enjoyment of fun, I find neg prizes pretty dumb and agree with Charlie Dees that they create an "in-crowd" feeling not just for high school but even some collegiate tournaments. Yes, usually they go to a good scorer who's just aggressive with a buzzer, but I have seen tournaments with a pretty conservative field where a person new to the game and somewhat struggling comes close to winning a neg prize. That would be really unfortunate.
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Re: trophies?

Post by naturalistic phallacy » Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:49 pm

David Riley wrote:... certificates...
Nicely printed certificates or ribbons are a nice way to congratulate teams if purchasing trophies for more than one or two teams is prohibitively expensive.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Coelacanth » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:29 pm

Morraine Man wrote:It seems that trophies went out of vogue with serious academic quizbowl for a while, probably because a lot of bad quizbowl events gave out plaques and stuff. I'm glad to see they're coming back, for all the reasons that Chris Chiego mentioned.
Speaking of plaques...

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Re: trophies?

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:36 pm

Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:Neg prizes are really inappropriate in high school because there is a very high risk you will end up giving it to someone who is inexperienced or is unfamiliar with how it has a joking context. They are sort of a consummate "in-crowd" award for high school, because the in crowd knows they are given out in college and everybody else doesn't know what is going on.
The person with the most negs at almost every tournament I have been to has been one of the top 5 or 10 scorers, and was usually Isaac Hirsch. Though, when you're dealing with a less quizbowl-dense area like Idaho, a neg prize is probably not a good idea because there's a lower percentage of hard-core quizbowlers.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Auroni » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:48 pm

This is a separate discussion, but I disagree that neg prizes are necessarily off-putting for people from new teams that receive them. Pretty much every tournament that I've ever been to or hosted has given out neg prizes, and in each case, nobody failed to notice the good-natured humor associated with the practice. Nobody that I've ever seen that has received one has thought that they were being laughed at for a poor performance. I think this is more of an issue of a tournament's general hospitality towards newer teams.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Matthew D » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:08 pm

I have given out a small lamp of knowledge pin in the past for individual scoring and normally do trophies for the top 3 teams in both varsity and JV. I am looking to find some more interesting trophies for this next tournament coming up. One year was back in 1999 I gave out small busts of different people like Newton and Kepler but I lost the address for the place I bought them from, so I am back looking again.
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Re: trophies?

Post by MahoningQuizBowler » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:12 pm

A player at a tournament in Ohio last year intentionally went on a massive negfest to try to win the neg prize. Needless to say, his teammates were put off by it and the prize was not given to that particular individual (shown here: http://naqt.com/stats/individual-perfor ... r_id=62018). Neg prizes have not been as common since, if I remember correctly, in the Ohio circuit.

I agree with what's been said regarding trophies in general, and certificates can be just as good for individual recognition and most likely cheaper than medals. Certificates for national qualification might also be appreciated.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:13 pm

Wurzel-Flummery wrote:
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:Neg prizes are really inappropriate in high school because there is a very high risk you will end up giving it to someone who is inexperienced or is unfamiliar with how it has a joking context. They are sort of a consummate "in-crowd" award for high school, because the in crowd knows they are given out in college and everybody else doesn't know what is going on.
The person with the most negs at almost every tournament I have been to has been one of the top 5 or 10 scorers, and was usually Isaac Hirsch. Though, when you're dealing with a less quizbowl-dense area like Idaho, a neg prize is probably not a good idea because there's a lower percentage of hard-core quizbowlers.
You go to tournaments in the D.C. area where the in-crowd mentality is much more pervasive. High schoolers have been demonstrated in this thread to literally be so immature as to intentionally try and win the neg prize, which is a behavior we do not remotely want to encourage, so I think that alone is reason enough to show that they can't be handled by the high school circuit. In any case, the neg prize is an award that can truly go to anybody, and just because it is more likely to go to aggressive good players does not mean that it is unlikely for a less involved, less talented player to wind up getting the award instead and being put off by it. I think that's too great a risk to run for such a stupid award.
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Re: trophies?

Post by ryandillon » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:22 pm

MahoningQuizBowler wrote:A player at a tournament in Ohio last year intentionally went on a massive negfest to try to win the neg prize. Needless to say, his teammates were put off by it and the prize was not given to that particular individual (shown here: http://naqt.com/stats/individual-perfor ... r_id=62018). Neg prizes have not been as common since, if I remember correctly, in the Ohio circuit.

I agree with what's been said regarding trophies in general, and certificates can be just as good for individual recognition and most likely cheaper than medals. Certificates for national qualification might also be appreciated.
I remember playing that team. Playing someone who is going for the neg prize isn't just upsetting for the player's teammates, but for the opposing team as well. I personally think neg prizes are good natured, but when it leads to a player doing something like this, I question their true value. Maybe the kid was unfamiliar with the game. But when he negged fourteen times on the first word and proceeded to laugh obnoxiously as the question went on, it really made the game seem like a waste of time and a completely undesirable experience.
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Re: trophies?

Post by mkanu » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:58 pm

I am a fan of trophies, simply because it brings teams back. I remember back in middle school there as this tournament that gave out trophies for first place that were as tall as I was (and I'm pretty tall) and this is by no means a hyperbole. That was my favorite tournament all year because of those awesome trophies. I understand the costs, but I urge everyone to have trophies at their tournaments.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:55 am

tiwonge wrote:Either the 3rd place team, or a team that scored a big upset, or came close in a lot of games, or displayed good sportsmanship, or maybe the winner of the loser's group, or something.
Not to dredge up things from way upthread, but I'd much prefer the first options to the final. Winner of the loser's group is something--but all it is is the seventh place team (if you have twelve). That team's not otherwise distinguished--I like giving an award to a team that missed the playoff bracket by a bunch of narrow losses, or a sportsmanship award, though. (I was reminded somewhat of a weird proposed RM playoff format that had a second rebracket that randomly took a team from the bottom playoff bracket and put it in the top for no clear reason.)
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Re: trophies?

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:10 pm

Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:
Wurzel-Flummery wrote:
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:Neg prizes are really inappropriate in high school because there is a very high risk you will end up giving it to someone who is inexperienced or is unfamiliar with how it has a joking context. They are sort of a consummate "in-crowd" award for high school, because the in crowd knows they are given out in college and everybody else doesn't know what is going on.
The person with the most negs at almost every tournament I have been to has been one of the top 5 or 10 scorers, and was usually Isaac Hirsch. Though, when you're dealing with a less quizbowl-dense area like Idaho, a neg prize is probably not a good idea because there's a lower percentage of hard-core quizbowlers.
You go to tournaments in the D.C. area where the in-crowd mentality is much more pervasive. High schoolers have been demonstrated in this thread to literally be so immature as to intentionally try and win the neg prize, which is a behavior we do not remotely want to encourage, so I think that alone is reason enough to show that they can't be handled by the high school circuit. In any case, the neg prize is an award that can truly go to anybody, and just because it is more likely to go to aggressive good players does not mean that it is unlikely for a less involved, less talented player to wind up getting the award instead and being put off by it. I think that's too great a risk to run for such a stupid award.
Yeah last year our captain's goal was often to win the neg prize. You definitely make a good point, though I've never seen in this area at least instances of non-experienced players coming close to the neg prize. It's really hard for an inexperienced player at a tournament with good teams to get 20 negs, which is often the going rate for the neg prize in the DC area. That being said, I can see how it would be risky for other areas, but I think at least if it is clearly jesting (definitely a gag prize, never something really coveted) in certain areas it isn't too much of a problem.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:12 pm

But yeah on the topic of trophies, I don't really see the drawback besides cost (which is apparently actually pretty low) and replacing other prizes, like books. I think books are very apropos for individual prizes but trophies are better for team prizes because they can show off a team's accomplishments.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Frater Taciturnus » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Wurzel-Flummery wrote:But yeah on the topic of trophies, I don't really see the drawback besides cost (which is apparently actually pretty low) and replacing other prizes, like books. I think books are very apropos for individual prizes but trophies are better for team prizes because they can show off a team's accomplishments.
This is why we give top teams trophies for the team and books for the individual members.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Golran » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:24 pm

Regarding neg prizes, we always have them as a comedic idea here, once we gave out a book called "gut reactions", and we had often given out subtraction flashcards. I really liked what Kellenberg did which was to give out a cheap plastic mask (their tournament is right around halloween).
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Re: trophies?

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:12 pm

At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Auroni » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:24 pm

The Gambler, the Nun, and the Radio wrote:At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster.
Man, I thought that that was just a rumor. Anyway, that's quite thoroughly disastrous and exactly the opposite of what TDs should be doing.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Frater Taciturnus » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:34 pm

every time i refresh i have a new name wrote:
The Gambler, the Nun, and the Radio wrote:At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster.
Man, I thought that that was just a rumor. Anyway, that's quite thoroughly disastrous and exactly the opposite of what TDs should be doing.
But but it was funn!
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Re: trophies?

Post by Rufous-capped Thornbill » Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:47 pm

Golran wrote:Regarding neg prizes, we always have them as a comedic idea here, once we gave out a book called "gut reactions", and we had often given out subtraction flashcards. I really liked what Kellenberg did which was to give out a cheap plastic mask (their tournament is right around halloween).
For our tournament last year we gave out a 1998 North Lime Preschool graduation trophy.

Although the best one I've ever read of is a hug from Ian Eppler.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Flash Bomba » Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:19 am

At CalTech, I remember one prize was a kiss from one of their (male) players...I don't remember if it actually happened though.
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Re: trophies?

Post by davud363000 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:26 pm

t3hr0xx0rz wrote:At CalTech, I remember one prize was a kiss from one of their (male) players...I don't remember if it actually happened though.
Lucas ran away before MIcah could give him one :razz:
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Re: trophies?

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:35 pm

davud363000 wrote:
t3hr0xx0rz wrote:At CalTech, I remember one prize was a kiss from one of their (male) players...I don't remember if it actually happened though.
Lucas ran away before MIcah could give him one :razz:
This sounds like a terrible, terrible idea.
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Re: trophies?

Post by i never see pigeons in wheeling » Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:55 am

Yeah, getting a trophy is like the idea of victory manifested in physical form. For teams that are generally less serious about the competition, it's generally a great psychological boost and at least somewhat of a motivation to return and try it again. Although I don't really care for getting trophies now, I did like the plaque from my first tournament freshman year.

Speaking of neg prizes, I think the best ones are the ones that are facetiously condescending. Nikhil once got All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten for it (he was second scorer at the tournament). Although I do see that some teams might find it off-putting, especially newer teams that don't understand the humor behind it.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Bloodwych » Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:12 pm

drno wrote: Speaking of neg prizes,
nothing beats a plunger.
🚿
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Re: trophies?

Post by Angry Babies in Love » Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:55 pm

Neg wrote:
drno wrote: Speaking of neg prizes,
nothing beats a plunger.
True story. You're welcome.
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Re: trophies?

Post by Bloodwych » Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:45 pm

Wurzel-Flummery wrote:
Neg wrote:
drno wrote: Speaking of neg prizes,
nothing beats a plunger.
True story. You're welcome.
It is my greatest accomplishment to date.
🚿
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Maryland - College Park '15

They were the only friends I ever had
We got into trouble and when stuff got bad
I got sent away, I was waving on the train platform
Crying 'cause I know I'm never comin' back

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